Jeffrey Epstein commits suicide in jail

UPDATE: The NYT updated report says that Epstein was on suicide watch, but had been taken off it, though I have no idea why—nor are officials forthcoming about it:

But one federal prison official with knowledge of the incident said Mr. Epstein had been taken off suicide watch a few days ago, and was being held alone in a cell in a special housing unit.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity for fear of being fired, said guards found Mr. Epstein in the empty cell during morning rounds. He had hanged himself and he appeared to be dead.

It would have been extremely difficult for Mr. Epstein to harm himself had he still been on suicide watch, a second official said, also speaking on the condition of anonymity.

____________________

This isn’t a real surprise, since I think he tried it once before. (Why wasn’t he on suicide watch?)

Almost surely guilty of rape, sex trafficking, and other crimes (I say “almost certainly” only because of the pre-trial presumption of innocence), Epstein was facing the rest of his life in jail. That might not be intolerable to someone who’s already done hard time, but for someone who’s lived a life of wealth and ease, and was probably facing attacks by other inmates, it was surely the most depressing future he could imagine.

Has justice been done? Probably not for the victims who wanted to have their say, or the many people who thought Epstein should rot in prison until he died. But a major downside of this event is that the trial won’t take place, and we will never know, I guess, who else was implicated in his crimes. A lot of big names have been bruited about.

While I don’t favor capital punishment for any crime, everyone has the prerogative to kill themselves.  As the article below reports (click on screenshot to read it), he hanged himself.

159 Comments

  1. Saul Sorrell-Till
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 8:57 am | Permalink

    Coward.

  2. Saul Sorrell-Till
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 8:59 am | Permalink

    I wonder how long it’ll take before the conspiracy theories start pouring in…

    This is exactly the kind of thing that the Alex Jones, ‘anti-elite’ nutjobs go wild for.

    • Marta
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

      It’s factually accurate that there were many powerful men who would benefit from Epstein’s death, and one or more of these people had the means to have him killed. Since this is all anyone needs to speculate that Epstein was as likely to have been “suicided” as to do it himself, the not unreasonable speculations that he was killed will be abundant–at least until an autopsy result is disclosed. (Autopsy result is not enough to stem conspiracy theories, of course.)

      My friends and I predicted two weeks ago that Epstein would die before trial.

      • Saul Sorrell-Till
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:39 am | Permalink

        I agree that the circumstances, especially at an early stage like this, are more open to interpretation than other conspiracies.

        But Occam’s razor: what’s more likely?

        …A chain of conspirators – stretching from some shadowy cabal of famous people all the way to Epstein’s jail cell – who were paid off to aid in his murder, and to make said murder look like a suicide?

        …Or a spineless old man who killed himself(after one failed attempt already) because he couldn’t face up to his own crimes?

        Remember also that one of those possibilities lacks any physical evidence whatsoever.

        It’s possible of course that for once the conspiracy theorists turn out to be right, but I’m not betting on it. Their hit-rate isn’t great.

        • Marta
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

          The speculation that he was murdered has already gone wide . . .

        • Filippo
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:31 pm | Permalink

          “Or a spineless old man . . . .”

          I note from Wikipedia that Epstein was approx. 66 1/2 years old. Just congenially curious, in your view, at what age does one become “old”?

          • Saul Sorrell-Till
            Posted August 11, 2019 at 5:16 am | Permalink

            35-ish 😉

        • Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

          “Remember also that one of those possibilities lacks any physical evidence whatsoever.”
          Wrong. he claimed a few weeks ago that he was attacked when he was found injured in his cell.

      • pablo
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:36 pm | Permalink

        They wouldn’t need to have him killed, just left alone long enough to kill himself.

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

          That seems like a slightly unreliable way to get him out of the picture. Especially if your entire career and reputation hinges on his death.

    • Rich Sanderson
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

      Check out social media – they are flooding in already.

      According to them, this “proves” all their other conspriacy theories were correct!

      • RGT
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:04 pm | Permalink

        Let me guess, the Clintons are at the top of the list.

        • Rich Sanderson
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:05 pm | Permalink

          Yup. The Clintons feature heavily in their theories.

          • Saul Sorrell-Till
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

            I thought they were busy stealing the goo from children’s brains for use in their rituals? The Clintons really are good at multitasking.

    • Rich Sanderson
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:27 am | Permalink

      The likes of PZ Myers are gloing down various conspiracy paths with regard to Epstein as well.

      Epstein seems to attract a lot of conspiracy cranks from the Far Left and Far Right.

      I fear the extent of his actual crimes will be lost in the fog.

      • Saul Sorrell-Till
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:54 am | Permalink

        I’d like to know what would convince them that there WASN’T foul-play involved.

        It’s certainly true that there’s motive, but you need a bit more than that, like some actual evidence.

        To paraphrase our creationist friends – ‘the Epstein conspiracy: just a theory’.

        • Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

          The Epstein Conspiracy sounds like a spy thriller from the eighties – probably starring a slightly overweight Michael Caine sporting a perm.

    • Harrison
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      I’m usually pretty dismissive toward conspiracy kooks, but in this case we’re talking about a man who was involved in an actual, factual 30+ year criminal conspiracy of child sex trafficking with people in positions of authority willing to do unusual things to cover it up or paper it over. And the circumstances are fishy as hell this time too.

      • BJ
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

        Yeah, I don’t think it’s crazy unreasonable to suspect foul play in this case. This isn’t some highly orchestrated conspiracy theory people are concocting here. Do I believe he was murdered (or forced to commit suicide by threats of harm to loved ones, or uncovering of other information that could hurt him or people he cared about, etc.)? I have no idea. He probably just killed himself, but even that might be because he knew just how connected this is to people who he might legitimately or illegitimately fear.

        I think it’s reasonable to speculate in this case, considering the connections to such powerful people and what those connections entailed. This isn’t a “we faked the moon landing, here’s all the crazy made up proof” kind of conspiracy theory. I don’t think anyone who simply thinks this was a conspiracy is some kook. A lot of the people who are going any further than that, with the how, why, and especially who, might be kooks.

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

          I get the feeling we’re never actually going to know either way, so the theories aren’t going to go away.

          • BJ
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

            Yup, that’s certainly true. Even if an autopsy says it’s 100% certain that he committed suicide, it’s like I said: people can think he was forced to do so. This is the rare unfalsifiable conspiracy theory.

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

          If Epstein was discovered inside a locked cell (which is where an inmate ordinarily would be overnight), it makes murder unlikely.

          Most prison murders — especially contract killings (as opposed to spontaneous beating deaths) — are committed by shiv in the common areas where prisoners have access to one another, such as “the yard” (which, in the case of the MCC in NY, would be the exercise area on the roof).

          • Michael Fisher
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

            Yes, there’s no mystery to his suicide. The question we need to ask is where his oceans of cash flow [into which he skimmed a bit for personal profit of a few 100 million or some billions] originated. I think his success was due to running a washing machine – I think a lot of these hedge funds are baloney cover for moving cash around – no genius Quantitative Hedge Fund maths skills required.

            If you’re going to wash dictator money & drug money you need an image of analytical competence like Epstein’s & you need the excessive bling & the girls, the private planes, a spare island & a long list of sexually blackmailed influencers to oil your transactions.

            • Michael Fisher
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:07 pm | Permalink

              Bling, not the right word – not jewellery or anything quite as tawdry as Trumpian gold crappers, but the mansion at No 9 was definitely an expression of who he saw himself as with leopard print covered chairs, personal pics of Woody Allen [!!!], Bill Clinton [!!] & Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. A life-size female doll hanging from a chandelier.

              “Watch closely because, remember, the clues are there, as we go through… the keyhole”

              • rickflick
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:56 pm | Permalink

                At this point it’s either Colonel Mustard in the porcelain crapper, or Professor Plum in the portrait hall. The hanging, life-sized, corpse smelled of precious bodily fluids.

          • BJ
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:23 pm | Permalink

            I know how most prison murders happen. All I’m saying is that it’s not outside the realm of possibility that he was threatened into suicide or, far far far less likely, that a couple of guards were paid off. The idea that Epstein didn’t just up and decide to kill himself isn’t a bonkers conspiracy theory like most conjured by those two words.

            • Ken Kukec
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

              I know how most prison murders happen.

              Where’d you do your time, Beej. 🙂

              Or you sayin’ you’ve got the boxed-set of Oz? 🙂

              • BJ
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

                Definitely the second one. Pretty cool dude, huh 8)

            • larry carrington
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 7:02 pm | Permalink

              I am a retired federal prison guard. This appears to be a typical prison suicide. Guards go through suicide prevention training every year and the question of who are most likely to commit suicide is drilled into us.

              The answer is white male over 40, 90 days into their first incarceration. Usually in the special housing unit, most likely between the hours of 3-6 am. Normally has attempted it before.

              Normally accomplished by asphyxiation, usually by hanging.

              This is simply a suicide.

              • BJ
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

                Thanks for the valuable input, Larry.

              • Ken Kukec
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 11:51 am | Permalink

                Thanks, CO.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:17 am | Permalink

      Especially the speculation that ‘elite people’ arranged for the suicide watch to not be full of gaps.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

      Reddit threads are filled with these already. I bet many of them are from the far left of the spectrum.

  3. Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:02 am | Permalink

    He strangled…
    Horrible way to go.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:20 am | Permalink

      Probably not as horrible as what he was facing.

    • Nicolaas Stempels
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:47 pm | Permalink

      I think ‘soft’ hanging is one of the least horrible ways to go.

  4. JB
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:03 am | Permalink

    Now people are going to conjecture about whom Epstein was going to implicate (Trump? Clinton?).

    And the Internet will explode with conspiracy theories of how he didn’t really commit suicide, but that some powerful person had him killed to avoid being named by Epstein.

    In any case, it doesn’t feel like justice that a man could rape a bunch of underage girls, get away with it for decades, live a life of wealth into his late 60s, then check out once things went bad for him.

    • Saul Sorrell-Till
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      People like Epstein make a nonsense of the idea of divine justice, of karma, of god’s judgement.

      One of the biggest intellectual shifts as you grew up is the realisation that good people don’t necessarily get rewarded and bad people don’t necessarily get punished. I think when you’re little you believe that there’s some giant finger that balances the karmic scales. Then you grow up and you realise that that’s not true.

      Or some of us realise it. Not everyone by any means. The idea that the universe somehow balances out happiness and fortune is a really persistent, instinctive belief – it’s hard to get rid of.

      Eg. I know entirely un-superstitious, irreligious people who nevertheless have convinced themselves that famously unpleasant people, like Rupert Murdoch or Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin, must secretly be “so unhappy behind closed doors”.

      And they tell themselves that “rich people are never happy”. Or “supermodels hate themselves deep down”.

      I guess it’s a kind of coping mechanism – a way of pretending to ourselves that the universe isn’t as hideously, relentlessly unfair as it seems.

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:34 am | Permalink

        Not sure it qualifies as “unfair,” but the universe is pitilessly uncaring.

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:27 am | Permalink

          ‘Lacking in fairness’ seems a pretty accurate description of the universe. Donald Trump, Vladimir Putin – if there was some kind of universal justice system at work these guys would have been struck by lightning or nudged into traffic before they even turned eighteen.

          The scary thing is that the only justice in the universe comes from us humans. And we’re not particularly good at it. We can’t even agree on what the word means.

          • Jenny Haniver
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:39 pm | Permalink

            “Unfair” and “uncaring” are terms/constructs that come from our (homo sapiens’) sense of morality and existential balance (perhaps something like moral homeostasis? or maybe not); they cannot be applied to “the universe” though we just can’t help but think of things that way.

            • Saul Sorrell-Till
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

              I disagree. Of course you can say the universe is ‘unfair’. It doesn’t make any difference that fairness is a human construct(as all value systems are) – it’s still true to say that the universe lacks the human construct of fairness. Ie. it is unfair.

              I think you think I’m accusing the universe of being tricksy, or malevolent, or capricious. I’m not, I’m just saying it’s lacking in any kind of quality that we would define as fairness.

              • Jenny Haniver
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 2:26 am | Permalink

                I don’t think we disagree though it seems so on the face of it. As you observe,”Of course one can say it’s unfair” but to me it means nothing to say that the universe is unfair as an abstract and absolute statement without stating the nature of the usage. You yourself say, “The idea that the universe somehow balances out happiness and fortune is a really persistent, instinctive belief – it’s hard to get rid of…it’s a kind of coping mechanism – a way of pretending to ourselves that the universe isn’t as hideously, relentlessly unfair as it seems.” Precisely because the idea of fairness “is a persistent, instinctive belief” it’s impossible to make that statement without assuming others will interpret it anthropomorphically — unless the term is first defined in the abstract context. I don’t think we disagree; I think we’re just talking past each other.

              • Saul Sorrell-Till
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 5:16 am | Permalink

                @Jenny – fair enough, as it were. I think the general view at WEIT is the one we share. Not cheery, but realistic.

            • Ken Kukec
              Posted August 11, 2019 at 11:55 am | Permalink

              Yes, it’s a bit of the old “pathetic fallacy.”

      • Blue
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:36 am | Permalink

        +1, Mr Saul Sorrell – Till. Utterly true.

        And almost all of these criminals of initial “wealth and ease” and status are not Not Males / the ab(Normal)
        / the Human Beings Female.
        We, the Victimized, never realize actual justice. And the wealthy and of position continue on
        inside their lives of ease. ON to their … … end.

        My long – dead Daddy decades ago, “O Kitty.
        They sleep .with themselves. j u s t fine,
        don’t think that they don’t ! It’s us.
        It is us with the consciences. We are
        the ones who aren’t able to sleep.”

        Blue

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:41 am | Permalink

          “My long – dead Daddy decades ago, “O Kitty.
          They sleep .with themselves. j u s t fine,
          don’t think that they don’t ! It’s us.
          It is us with the consciences. We are
          the ones who aren’t able to sleep.””

          Your dad was a wise man. That sums it up much better than I could.

      • rickflick
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:14 pm | Permalink

        You can think of it as one of those circus performers who spin many dishes on long poles. Gravity is the universal force of indifference that destroys the porcelain plates of justice. The performer is civilization keeping things from getting too far out of hand.

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

          We had an unfortunate plate-spinner come to school one day. One of my classmates threw his shoe at him.

          • Saul Sorrell-Till
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

            …the classmate was a right plonker. I felt very sorry for the plate-spinner.

            • rickflick
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:36 pm | Permalink

              Noun. plonker (plural plonkers) (Britain, slang, mildly derogatory) A fool. (Britain, slang) A penis. (Britain, slang, dated) A man who sanctions sexual relationships between his girlfriend and his male friends.
              Thanks Saul.

              • Michael Fisher
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:50 pm | Permalink

                Here’s a tutorial on “plonker” usage courtesy of Del Trotter of Peckham, London – the MD of T.I.T:

              • rickflick
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:14 pm | Permalink

                Thanks. Imagine the utility of knowing: “Don’t be a plonker all your life.”

              • Jenny Haniver
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 2:45 am | Permalink

                @Michael Fisher – Thanks for the tutorial. Always good to increase one’s vocabulary, and learn about Rodney Rude, too.

                BTW, in a post about a week ago, you remarked “In the context of sharks, it is amusing to me that you go by the handle ‘Jenny Haniver.'” If you mean re the composition of the cryptozoological object, that would make sense, though sting rays were more prevalent. If not, the only items I could find online were Jenny the tiger shark, Jennifer Shark at MIT, and a video “Shark time with Jenny,” none of which has any relation to this Jenny.

              • Saul Sorrell-Till
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 5:12 am | Permalink

                I remember the first day I heard the word, when I was about six or seven, and my dad yelled it at another driver. I think I laughed for about five minutes straight.

                Until I read your post I had absolutely no idea that it had that meaning, about farming out your girlfriend though. We both learned something!

  5. Diana MacPherson
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:04 am | Permalink

    I read that he actually was on a suicide watch. How he managed to kill himself on a suicide watch makes me suspicious.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:44 am | Permalink

      Yes, this report from 24th July says he was put on suicide watch:

      https://tinyurl.com/yyyqozyz

      • Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

        (which will surely feed conspiracy theories)

      • DrBrydon
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

        ABC News is reporting that he was not on suicide watch, but does not say when he was taken off suicide watch or why. The media is a little fact light these days; more important to have a story than a complete one.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:45 am | Permalink

      Yes, he was on suicide watch. I don’t think it is unreasonable to suspect foul play here.

      • GBJames
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:51 am | Permalink

        I think sheer incompetence (on the part of prison staff) is more likely than conspiracy.

      • Saul Sorrell-Till
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

        I think it’s reasonable to be dubious…but to actually suspect foul play? Why? Is there any evidence whatsoever?

        And especially to start constructing giant edifices of politically motivated bullshit about the Clintons getting to him* or Trump drugging his hot chocolate or whatever the hell is happening on social media(I haven’t looked).

        *not that I think you’re doing this, obviously – I’m talking about the inevitable avalanche of utterly toxic lunatics who latch onto anything suspicious and turn it into a flaming car-wreck of interconnected mentalness that ends up with someone shooting up a pizza parlour.

        • Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:00 pm | Permalink

          Yes, there is a bit of evidence. As I mentioned, he claimed he was attacked a few weeks earlier, when he was found injured in his cell. Not worth a whole lot, but it is the only evidence we have for that event. Those who discount it have the burden of proof, I think.

          • Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

            Actually, I see the guy who was initially accused of attacking Epstein in his cell claimed that he was really just rescuing him from a suicide attempt. So there is that counter-evidence.

          • Saul Sorrell-Till
            Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:24 pm | Permalink

            I agree – anyone who discounts the idea totally isn’t being reasonable. But I don’t see many people doing that.

            Like I said to BJ I can’t see any definitive conclusions coming out of this anytime soon, not enough to satisfy anyone either way.

            Personally I think this is more likely to be a cowardly old man who topped himself than any grand conspiracy, for the following reasons(and more):

            – this is one of the most famous men in the world, any suspicious death is going to attract an avalanche of speculation and investigation. That’s a big risk for anyone trying to get him killed.

            – there are significant players who were with him throughout his career, who have almost as much evidence that they could divulge as him. It’s a huge risk to take given that having him killed is no kind of guarantee that you won’t get named by one of his associates anyway.

            – because it’s the most boring explanation, and life has a habit of serving up anti-climaxes in these instances. Eg. was it the Abominable SNOWMAN??!! No, it was just a fat albino ape who liked the cold and hated tourists. Was it BIGFOOT!?!? No, it was a hairy flasher who got caught running away from a girl guides camp.

            • Ken Kukec
              Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

              Could be foul play was involved. But I’m goin’ with Occam’s Razor unless and until there are facts disclosed for which simple suicide isn’t the most straightforward explanation.

              • Ken Kukec
                Posted August 10, 2019 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

                According to the latest reports, Epstein was “in the SHU” (the Segregated Housing Unit, where inmates are kept for disciplinary reasons, aka “the hole,” or for protective custody) at the time of his death. This makes it all but impossible that he died at the hand of another inmate, since only correctional officers have access to prisoners housed there.

              • Saul Sorrell-Till
                Posted August 11, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

                Ditto. There should be a ‘law of universal anti-climaxes’ – any time you think some big story is going somewhere interesting and surprising the universe will disappoint you. Always choose the more boring explanation.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:54 am | Permalink

      After his earlier “suicide attempt” he claimed he was attacked.

      “It was not clear to jail officials at the time if the injuries, which were not serious, were self-inflicted or the result of an assault, the sources said. Epstein told authorities he was beaten up and called a child predator, they said.”

      Who know if he should be believed, but many people with infinitely deep pockets and enormous power had strong motives to see him disappear. And apparently regular prisoners hate child abusers, so someone might have done the deed without needing any payoffs or deals.

      • Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:57 am | Permalink

        As of 10am:
        “Spokesperson Aja Davis said the coroner’s office is still investigating the cause of death and would not yet confirm the cause.”

  6. docbill1351
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:06 am | Permalink

    “or the many people who thought Epstein should rot in prison until he died.”

    He did rot in prison until he died.

  7. GBJames
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    I would argue that people awaiting trial for crimes should lose the right to end their own lives.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:38 am | Permalink

      That would be fair enough if they’re then allowed to ask for suicide pills if convicted.

      • Eric Grobler
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

        “ask for suicide pills ”

        I fully support this!

      • Jim Danielson
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

        In Epstein’s case, I’d say he could have asked for suicide pills, but be given a dull spoon instead.

        A very dull spoon.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

      Well they do forfeit their right to end their own lives. That’s why, when they give indications that they might commit suicide, they are put on suicide watch.

      • GBJames
        Posted August 11, 2019 at 11:47 am | Permalink

        I’m just making the case as a principle. In too many places, like in my state, suicide isn’t considered a right so we need to go elsewhere to end our lives (with assistance).

    • JB
      Posted August 11, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

      Retributive justice leads nowhere and implicitly endorses the notion of Free Will. Removing people from society who have harmed (and will likely harm again) is the right answer. If restorative justice is possible, I would be in favor, but inducing suffering for the purpose of revenge makes no moral sense.

  8. Joyce Denn
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:17 am | Permalink

    I am not at all prone to believe conspiracy theories; in fact, I tend to be quite skeptical. However, Epstein was on suicide watch, and it was in the interests of some very powerful people, including Trump, to keep him quiet. All it would take is bribing one or two corrupt prison guards.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      Yup. And he did claim he was attacked a few weeks ago when he was found injured. I don’t understand how some commenters above can be so quick (and so insulting) when they dismiss conspiracy theories about this case, based only on what we know at the moment.

  9. Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:43 am | Permalink

    The whole story is a real mystery. What did he value more than his own life? Did someone get to him and make a deal? Maybe there was nothing, and then with all the big names and the gangster likes on power? Rumors abound, no doubt.,GROG

  10. Ken Kukec
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:20 am | Permalink

    Epstein was in federal custody at the Metropolitan Correctional Center, not nearby at “the Tombs” or out on Rikers Island. The Feds are generally better at preventing this sort of thing. Given Epstein’s earlier attempt, he would’ve been put on “suicide watch,” but the first reporting suggests that he was taken off it recently, which seems weird (though I’m not suggesting anything untoward).

    I thought Epstein would wind up cooperating in a bid to avoid spending the rest of his life in prison. Prosecutors won’t have that evidence now, of course, but the US attorney’s office for the SDNY would’ve never brought cases on the testimony of Epstein alone; they would have required corroboration. To the extent such corroboration exists, I would expect the investigation to continue regarding any accomplices, co-conspirators, or aiders & abettors Epstein may have had in the trafficking and abuse of underage women.

    I hope Epstein’s victims end up with a big chunk of his estate in a civil settlement.

    • E Siegel
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:30 am | Permalink

      The victims may get nothing. The founder of Victoria’s Secret will claim the money was looted from him and hire lots of lawyers to get back what is left.

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:46 am | Permalink

        We’ll see; the ensuing litigation should provide fodder for the tabloids and mainstream media alike for quite some time.

        • Jim Danielson
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

          I think lawyers will be the major beneficiaries of his estate.

  11. NormanPolanski
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:24 am | Permalink

    They switched him out. He’s on an island somewhere sipping drinks.

    • GBJames
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:29 am | Permalink

      With Paul McCartney who’s been there since 1965.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:27 am | Permalink

      I heard from reliable sources that Trump had him killed in order to distract the media from the latest spate of debacles.

      • Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:37 pm | Permalink

        I heard the same thing from my sources!

      • Steve Gerrard
        Posted August 11, 2019 at 12:20 am | Permalink

        We’ll know for certain if there is another scandal during the next week that obliterates this one from memory. Like that other time it happened, which I can’t quite remember exactly.

  12. Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:37 am | Permalink

    If he is on a suicide watch and there ain’t no way to hang himself how did he hang himself? That doesn’t make sense unless he got a string and choke himself but it doesn’t make sense either.

  13. Sue McKeown
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:14 am | Permalink

    Suicide by one’s own hand is no longer illegal, nor should it be. But all suicides (even physician-assisted ones) are ultimately selfish acts. A suicide like Epstein’s is especially selfish because the people he wronged will not see earthly justice meted out against bim. On the other hand, all of us will meet God and Epstein will face judgment from Him, as all of us will.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:16 am | Permalink

      Ummm. . . why are physician-assisted suicides selfish acts? That seems dubious given that many who choose to end a life filled with pain and terminal disease are supported by their friends and loved ones.

      Finally, before you can post further, please provide us with evidence (and not just “your feeling”) that we are all going to meet God and face judgment. Seriously, where do you get the evidence for THAT?

    • Saul Sorrell-Till
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:28 am | Permalink

      “But all suicides (even physician-assisted ones) are ultimately selfish acts”

      What a fantastically selfish thing to say.

    • DrBrydon
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

      I tend to agree that suicide is selfish. (I am not sure whether I think physician-assisted suicide is, I am leaning towards not, and I certainly don’t believe in judgement after death.) When you commit suicide, you leave behind a dead body for a family member, friend, or stranger to find, or you leave no body, which just causes worry about what’s happened. Depending on why you commit suicide, if you are someone like Epstein, who would presumably have done it to escape justice, then you leave behind all your problems for other people to deal with in your place.

      • Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

        If not selfish, then it is usually out of self interest. And there is nothing wrong with that. If not wanting to suffer is selfish, so be it. I don’t know why this is a controversial statement.

        • Jimbo
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:20 pm | Permalink

          “Suicide is selfish” is such a cliche and tired argument. Others point out reasons below but I’m always left with the thought “so what? people shouldn’t commit suicide because they’ll be considered selfish afterwards?”

          Isn’t it too late to guard their reputation? Does anyone think this has deterrent value? It’s your life, what right do others have in its preservation?

      • Diana MacPherson
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

        I think it’s incredibly short sighted to claim that suicide is, by its nature, selfish. If you’ve ever suffered unrelenting pain (physical or mental), you’d have a glimpse into why suicide is a good option to end suffering and any family or friend who would rather you endure that then have to deal with their own anguish at your absence or having to deal with the trouble of disposing of your body and distributing your estate seem, to me, to be the selfish ones.

        • Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

          Absolutely agree.

        • Saul Sorrell-Till
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

          It would be horrendous for someone to discover a body. But the intensity of unhappiness when you’re feeling truly depressed, I think it’s just not describable to another person. It’s something that they will have thought about for a long time beforehand.

          Also I think a lot of suicides are people who are incredibly sensitive, way too sensitive to cope with life. They feel anxiety and misery and guilt about other people almost as much as they do about themselves, so they will have thought about the consequences for their family and friends over and over again and no doubt felt terrible pain at the thought…but they will still have gone through with it, which tells you how unhappy they were.

          • JB
            Posted August 11, 2019 at 8:25 am | Permalink

            I discovered a body once: he was in his 50s, just divorced, started drinking constantly. He worked for my dad who had a computer store; he was a salesman. He shot himself with a 22 and I found him the next morning in the office, still sitting in his chair. I was a kid and I remember just feeling sad. Sad that people suffer so much in this life at times. But never once did the thought occur to me, “gee, how selfish.” That seems like an odd thing to think.

            • Saul Sorrell-Till
              Posted August 11, 2019 at 10:33 am | Permalink

              That’s rough. It breaks my heart, and it makes me angry when people talk about suicides in such a way, as though the termination of someone’s hopes, dreams, loves, ambitions, is selfish because of the stains they’re going to make on the carpet.
              As though it’s the equivalent of a bunch of frat bros throwing a party in a hotel and leaving a mess for the maid.

      • Nicolaas Stempels
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

        I can think of several suicides that are the opposite of selfish, like the old Inuit who him/herself a burden to his/her band and wants to be left behind, to die from exposure or starvation, being a prime example.

    • Mark R.
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      “…all of us will meet God…”

      Wow, no kidding? So with 151,600 deaths per day (approx. 2/second), how does the deity keep up with all the judgments? How does “he” find the time to listen to the billions of daily prayers? If you spend a little effort of thought, a sound conclusion is that upon death, there is no meeting and therefore no judging.

      • Diana MacPherson
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

        Also good because I’d like to ask this deity where he was during the holocaust.

        • Mark R.
          Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:52 pm | Permalink

          And what about that asteroid strike in the Cretaceous?

          • Diana MacPherson
            Posted August 19, 2019 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

            As Ricky Gervais says, “What did the squids do?”

      • Historian
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

        As a good CEO, maybe God delegates the judgments to his bureaucracy, aka angels. He may get involved only when an angel can’t make a decision due to conflicting evidence. In big cases, such as Epstein, he may want to make the judgment himself with the trusted advice of his son. All in all, the angels can decide the fates of the “little people.” 😊

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        And that doesn’t count how busy He is on the other end, handing out souls to zygotes.

  14. Harrison
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:30 am | Permalink

    The latest word is that Epstein was NOT on suicide watch for the last two weeks. He was deliberately taken off despite obviously still being a suicide risk.

  15. Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:16 pm | Permalink

    This is suspicious as hell to me, whether that makes me a conspiracy-monger or not. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean there isn’t someone out to get you. And just because crazies are inclined to suspect conspiracies doesn’t mean there isn’t one.

    • Nicolaas Stempels
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

      What makes a conspiracy theory not totally bonkers here is that it needed only very few people to be involved.
      Contrary to, say, the ‘faked moon landing’ or the ‘9/11 inside job’ conspiracy theories.

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

        Coulda been a grassy-knoll gunman.

  16. Steve Gerrard
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    This Esquire headline sounds about right:

    “Nobody Will Ever Believe the Official Story on This”

  17. jhs
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Is there a video surveillance system in the jail. If there isn’t, one has to wonder what a suicide watch entails.

    • Harrison
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

      It typically entails a guard checking on the prisoner every 5 minutes or so along with increased restrictions on what a person can have in their cell. Typically they won’t allow anything that could be fashioned into a noose. However it’s now coming out that Epstein was not on suicide watch even though he should have been.

  18. jhs
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    Is there a video surveillance system in the jail? If there isn’t, one has to wonder what a suicide watch entails.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

      I don’t see how you can put somebody who has not yet been convicted of a crime under video surveillance. It would constitute a huge invasion of privacy.

  19. Jim Danielson
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

    I find it difficult to believe he didn’t keep evidence of others criminal acts. As I understand it he was blackmailing people over their participation. If so, he has something squirreled away. It may be encrypted, but he didn’t encrypt the pictures on his computer. Probably thought he was safe right up until the police showed up on his door. Perhaps right up to when he was refused bail.

    I really wish the media would stop showing his picture. I hate his face, right up there with Trump and Moscow Mitch.

    • Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

      I bet there is a lot of interesting traffic to and from his island right now.

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

      As I understand it he was blackmailing people over their participation.

      I’d be interested to see a reliable source for that understanding, if you happen to have one available.

  20. Michael Fisher
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 2:37 pm | Permalink

    Sex Fiend Escapes Justice Into The Future: Given that Epstein wanted to freeze his head [brain] & his cock for resurrection, some qualified person should check both appendages are presently & correctly part of the corpse!

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

      That made me think of this passage from Hunter Thompson’s corrosively hilarious obituary for Richard Nixon:

      The family opted for cremation until they were advised of the potentially onerous implications of a strictly private, unwitnessed burning of the body of the man who was, after all, the President of the United States. Awkward questions might be raised, dark allusions to Hitler and Rasputin. People would be filing lawsuits to get their hands on the dental charts. Long court battles would be inevitable — some with liberal cranks bitching about corpus delicti and habeas corpus and others with giant insurance companies trying not to pay off on his death benefits. Either way, an orgy of greed and duplicity was sure to follow any public hint that Nixon might have somehow faked his own death or been cryogenically transferred to fascist Chinese interests on the Central Asian Mainland.

      It would also play into the hands of those millions of self-stigmatized patriots like me who believe these things already.

      • Mark R.
        Posted August 10, 2019 at 6:21 pm | Permalink

        I can’t ever read an excerpt of The Duke without wanting to read more. He creates an itch that needs to be scratched. That last line is frickin’ priceless.

  21. Roger Lambert
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

    The Nation of Islam publishes an article arguing that Epstein was done in by…

    (can you guess?)…

    yes! The Jews.

    (sigh)

    https://revisionistreview.blogspot.com/2019/08/epsteins-death-contract-killing-ordered.html

  22. JB
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Apparently there were cameras monitoring his jail cell but…

    … they malfunctioned so there is no footage of his apparent suicide.

    • Roger Lambert
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      See, now that IS suspicious.

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 8:50 pm | Permalink

      Source?

    • Michael Fisher
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 10:27 pm | Permalink

      Leading with “apparently” in your camera malfunction comment JB is an easy get out – a solid source would help. Something not associated with Breitbart or similar would be nice please.

      This unfounded rumour seems to have begun with a a bag of wind, bullshitter, neo-fascist named Michael Coudrey AKA Mike Tokes who is in the business of promoting himself for the purposes of expanding his nebulous businesses. He operates in the slimy world of digital PR & he doesn’t have a track record beyond his own statements regarding his track record.

      He’s out of Vegas & he describes himself as “New Right” – he’s known for not paying back personal loans & passing bad cheques at the casinos where he’s no longer welcome. [the latter I got from the 2+2 poker forum I frequent]

      He co-founded “The New Right” which has failed to make a splash – he seems to be extremely ineffectual & thus he bigs himself up with scare quote “apparently” type stuff…

      Here’s the tweet that probably got the camera ball rolling – don’t read the comments – he’s followed by vile, moronic conspiritard types:

  23. Posted August 10, 2019 at 3:55 pm | Permalink

    Conspiracies cannot be entirely dismissed outright, just because loons believe in them. If there are enough resources, and enough at stake, it becomes rather likely that interested parties don’t sit on their hands.

    But I don’t believe it happened here for his death does not tie up loose ends, but fires up speculations, and he leaves behind potentially many victims who now might have even more reason to step forward to tell their story. In short, his death doesn’t have the effect the conspiracy believers say it has. Unless, of course, they’re saying he simultaneously had many victims, with many of the elite participating in crimes, and at once, all of this was mysteriously covered up. That would make it a “classic” then, a large scale operation, yet somehow all of these people keep quiet.

    • Roger Lambert
      Posted August 10, 2019 at 5:00 pm | Permalink

      “his death does not tie up loose ends,”

      And exactly how do you know this? And why would that preclude some nefarious plot?

      • Posted August 11, 2019 at 9:25 am | Permalink

        It doesn’t preclude anything. It only says that the crimes that involve victims, and circumstances that already led to his arrest are still around. Conspiracy nuts often operate with partial scenarios, especially the bigger the conspiracy gets.

  24. Jimbo
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 9:01 pm | Permalink

    Jerry, you got me thinking when you wrote:
    “While I don’t favor capital punishment for any crime, everyone has the prerogative to kill themselves.”
    Given this stance (and your pro position on assisted suicide for suffering people with incurable diseases with which I agree) would you allow other convicted felons who are guilty and serving life sentences without the possibility of parole to also kill themselves if they so desired? Why or why not?

  25. Jenny Haniver
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:08 pm | Permalink

    I doubt that we’ll ever know exactly what transpired in Jeffrey Epstein’s cell last night, and conspiracy theories are pullulating like maggots on a cadaver. Trump is now leading the pack by suggesting that the Clintons are responsible. How long will it be before he finds a way to implicate Obama, too?

    Right about now I could use a Mae Brussell to sort out these conspiracies and weave them together into coherent incoherence.

    • Saul Sorrell-Till
      Posted August 11, 2019 at 5:07 am | Permalink

      Oh god, well of course he was going to leap in. Ever helpful the president.

    • abear
      Posted August 11, 2019 at 6:02 pm | Permalink

      Retweeting those slanderous rumors has to be among the lowest things ever done by Trump.
      He brings shame to America.

  26. John Nunes
    Posted August 10, 2019 at 11:35 pm | Permalink

    AG Barr involved:

    Obviously this means is that the Epstein-Barr virus is spreading…

  27. 355101pkl
    Posted August 11, 2019 at 6:20 am | Permalink

    The rich never stop believing they can get away with anything.

    • rickflick
      Posted August 11, 2019 at 6:33 pm | Permalink

      I wonder how much it is the money itself, or if certain sociopathic personalities are just good at business. Perhaps having no scruples to begin with makes one good at accumulating wealth.

  28. Posted August 11, 2019 at 8:06 am | Permalink

    “Epstein’s body remained at the hospital until Saturday afternoon, when Medical Examiner’s staffers in a black van took it to the ME’s Office downtown.

    A second, white medical examiner’s van was parked at a separate door as an apparent decoy for the crowd of press and photographers gathered at the hospital.”

    -NY Post

    This kind of thing doesn’t help….

  29. Ken Kukec
    Posted August 11, 2019 at 10:00 am | Permalink

    Forget it, Lou; it’s the NY Post, famous for headlines like “Headless Body in Topless Bar”:

    https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/111301frontpage.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

    • Posted August 11, 2019 at 2:42 pm | Permalink

      That’s a great headline! And it was true.

      Anyway I remember that this newspaper is or was owned by the Moonies, and is no paragon of journalism. But their statement is at least half-right: a screened white medical examiner’s van left the prison that day. More than that, I don’t know.

      • Posted August 11, 2019 at 2:53 pm | Permalink

        It seems the staff checked the bar to see if it really had topless women before running that famous headline, suggesting they aren’t hacks.

        “The headline was perfect, and the Post newsroom knew it. “The whole staff gathered behind Vinnie, like one of those oil paintings you see of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, with the founding fathers huddled together to absorb the impact of the moment,” former Post staffer Charlie Carillo recalled years later. After confirming that the bar did, indeed, feature topless dancing, the Post ran the story under Musetto’s screaming front-page headline. The rest is tabloid history.”

        https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/06/headless-body-in-topless-bar-writer-dies-but-why-was-that-headless-body-there.html

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted August 11, 2019 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

          Yeah, some of the The Post‘s headlines are classics. I remember the one about the witness who couldn’t identify the alleged mob boss who had assaulted him: “I Forgotti!” 🙂

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 11, 2019 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

        It’s a Rupert Murdoch tabloid (you might be thinking of the Washington Times, which was owned by the “Reverend” Moon), and a strongly pro-Trump organ — although it did come out last week, right after the two massacres, in favor of banning assault weapons.

        • Posted August 11, 2019 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

          Thanks for that correction, yes, I was thinking of the Washington Times.

      • Posted August 11, 2019 at 3:40 pm | Permalink

        “left the prison” should read “left the hospital”

  30. Jenny Haniver
    Posted August 11, 2019 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

    Surely by now everyone reading this post knows that the plot has thickened considerably overnight: “Before Jail Suicide, Jeffrey Epstein Was Left Alone and Not Closely Monitored” https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/nyregion/epstein-death-manhattan-correctional-center.html

    Perhaps it was a genuine suicide,something he desired, perhaps abetted by people who literally looked the other way. But perhaps we’ll find that his was a suicide like that of Roberto Calvi in the early 1980s, the Vatican banker found dangling from Blackfriars Bridge in London, bound hand and foot, stones stuffed in his clothing.


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