Bari Weiss interviewed by Joe Rogan

Bari Weiss is live right now on Joe Rogan’s show, and at the moment she’s talking about Israel, Palestine, and the press coverage of the issue. Now she’s on to identity politics. The link is below:

h/t: Grania

44 Comments

  1. Posted January 21, 2019 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    This is some good shit! Thanks!

    • Jenny Haniver
      Posted January 21, 2019 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

      +1

  2. Mike Deschane
    Posted January 21, 2019 at 5:37 pm | Permalink

    Just caught the tail end of it, I will have to go back and find the rest of it.

    One Weiss gem I loved; Instagram (ie social media) “Hurtling pixels at each other.”

  3. Posted January 21, 2019 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

    Great discussion.

  4. KD33
    Posted January 21, 2019 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

    I only had a chance to listen to a little so far. Bring it up in YT, though, and check out the comments. They are scary. Looks like Joe pulls in an audience of antisemitic misogynists. Is that typical or are the trolls looking for something to do?

    • WDB
      Posted January 21, 2019 at 7:17 pm | Permalink

      I watch Joe Rogan fairly regularly and the comment section there does attract a LOT of trolls

      • XCellKen
        Posted January 21, 2019 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

        You should read the comments section of Quillette these days !

        • KD33
          Posted January 21, 2019 at 10:15 pm | Permalink

          Oh my god, you’re right. I checked out Pinker’s great piece rebutting arguments against his recent book. In the comments it’s like no one actually read the piece.

          We’re doomed. (Sorry Steven!)

          • Posted January 22, 2019 at 7:09 am | Permalink

            Fortunately those commentators (unlike those wonderful people who comment of Prof CC) are not in positions that mean anything pwoerful

    • Posted January 22, 2019 at 4:16 am | Permalink

      Alas, the “Intellectual Dark Web” (IDW) was filled with Alt Right since its inception. Bari Weiss’ piece already included them. The big names failed to disentangle themselves from them, or did it too little too late, despite many a warning.

      Jerry ran many stories about the Women’s March organizers and their proximity to Farrakhan and anti-semitism. The IDW has a similar problem in another direction, which was unfortunately ignored. I know they aren’t an organization, but they still appear under a banner that questionable far righters also use to appear more moderate than they really are. I stress this isn’t the Woke Crying Nazi yet again.

      • Zaphod
        Posted January 22, 2019 at 7:57 am | Permalink

        Who are these alt-righters who’ve twitched your ACME political divining rod?

        • Posted January 22, 2019 at 8:13 am | Permalink

          You didn’t answer my question, Zaphie, but just emitted more ignorance. Bye.

        • Posted January 22, 2019 at 10:49 am | Permalink

          See for yourself. Here is Bari Weiss story:

          You will find a link to the “sleek website” featuring Alex Jones, Vox Day, and Carl Benjamin. There’s also (or was) Stefan Molyneux, Mike Cernovich, Lauren Southern who are all Alt Right, or according to some nitpickers “Alt Lite” (because they aren’t as candid about their white supremacism as Richard Spencer).

          Bari Weiss herself noted at the time:

          “Go a click in one direction and the group is enhanced by intellectuals with tony affiliations like Steven Pinker at Harvard. But go a click in another and you’ll find alt-right figures like Stefan Molyneux and Milo Yiannopoulos and conspiracy theorists like Mike Cernovich (the #PizzaGate huckster) and Alex Jones (the Sandy Hook shooting denier).”

          That’s why I thought this association was a bad idea at the time, and only looks worse as time went on. I understand guilty-by-association, and also know of “crying nazi” of the woke, who desensitised everybody. But none of this applies here, all things considered. The association is voluntary. It also works for them, as a kind of “audience-sharing”, “community building” mechanism, especially notable with Dave Rubin, who poached often alt right media personalities for his show.

          • Eric Grobler
            Posted January 22, 2019 at 2:30 pm | Permalink

            You are aware that the term IDW was coined by Eric Weinstein?

            Eric had in mind non-tribal new media, intellectuals like, Sam Harris, Dave Rubin, Peterson, Bret Weinstein, Sommers, Shapiro etc.

            It EXCLUDES people like Jones, Molyneux Cernovich etc.

            • Posted January 22, 2019 at 7:25 pm | Permalink

              Bari Weiss lists those names you say are excluded, and in my observation, they belong indeed into that cluster. I’m myself well-connected in that corner and I’ve seen myself how these people were suddenly relevant, abd what they say. Even Alex Jones was accepted in that strange metamodernist way. It’s simply a fact.

              I don’t know why I always have to bring evidence, always meet denial, when there is absolutely nothing secret about it. All you need to do is check the website that is promoted as the IDW central register, or merely follow people in that cluster and see for yourself how the Alt Right, truther, Trump and conspiracy scene is right there, with the further far right barely a mouseclick away.

              • Eric Grobler
                Posted January 23, 2019 at 12:49 am | Permalink

                Like I said before, the concept of IDW was introduced by Eric Weinstein and he and the central figures do not identify themselves with crackpots like Alex Jones.

                I have no idea who is responsible for the list on http://intellectualdark.website

                However the prominent people on the site are Rubin, Sommers, Heying, Douglas Murray, Bret Weinstein, Nawaz, Ayaan Ali, Michael Shermer, Harris, Gad Saad, Shapiro, Pinker, Camila Paglia, Rogan etc – do

                Is this your logic:?
                Steven Pinker was on Rogan’s podcast, Joe Rogan is friends with Alex Jones, Alex Jones entertained Stefan Molyneux, and Molyneux interviewed Cernovich thus:
                Pinker should publicly apologize for his shameful association and “disentangle” himself?

          • Eric Grobler
            Posted January 23, 2019 at 1:02 am | Permalink

            By the way, this very site (Jerry Coyne) fit’s Eric Weinstein’s definition of the Intellectual Dark Web

            • Posted January 23, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

              I assume my copy of Protocols of the Elders of Zion is in the post?

              • Eric Grobler
                Posted January 23, 2019 at 8:05 am | Permalink

                Sorry, your comment did not tickle my funny bones!

                Perhaps I am from a parallel universe – people around here seem to think that Weinstein, Pinker, Harris, Sommers, Haidt, Rubin, Saad etc are Nazi’s masquerading as Jews.

      • BJ
        Posted January 22, 2019 at 8:17 am | Permalink

        There’s a difference: the Women’s March organizers regularly praise and hang out with extremely prominent antisemites/homophobes/misogynists. Many in the “IDW” simply have normal people who happen to be alt-right following them. Those are two very, very different things, and I think you know that.

        • Posted January 22, 2019 at 11:01 am | Permalink

          Carl Benjamin routinely produced content with the Far Right, including the most notable, like Richard Spencer, Jared Taylor, or Steve Bannon. Not to mention countless more obscure Far Right characters. By Far Right, I mean functionally neo-fascists, ethno-nationalists, supremacists, etc. His apologists want you to know though that he was “debating” them, and “disagrees” with them on some fine print. It really is fine print, which is plain to everybody who actually know his content.

      • Eric Grobler
        Posted January 22, 2019 at 2:20 pm | Permalink

        “the “Intellectual Dark Web” (IDW) was filled with Alt Right since its inception.”

        Perhaps you can mention a few egregious opinions by members of the “Intellectual Dark Web”?

        To suggest that fans of Sam Harris, Eric Weinstein, Jordan Peterson, Christina Hoff Sommers etc have significant “alt-right” fanbases is silly – perhaps a lazy and ill informed prejudice.

        (Unless your definition of “alt-right” is woke!)

        • Posted January 22, 2019 at 11:51 pm | Permalink

          I don’t know where you got these names from. They are quite different from the ones I listed.

          Here are a few examples of “egregious opinions”: Sandy Hook was a hoax. Different r/K selection strategies for different human “races”, insinuating some races are really like vermin, and also have a low IQ; white people are being replaced by a shadow elite (i.e. white genocide).

          To name a few.

          • Eric Grobler
            Posted January 23, 2019 at 12:59 am | Permalink

            “They are quite different from the ones I listed.

            Because the names I listed are examples from Eric Weinstein who coined the term.

            Your list contains people that do not belong and Eric would outright reject.

            (Most of the central characters (except Peterson, Rogan) are liberal Jews for God sake!)

            • Posted January 23, 2019 at 7:49 am | Permalink

              You say the same things in two different threads. Let me address this here:

              Again, not I decide who belongs to the IDW. I cite Bari Weiss and the website, which is the “closest thing to a phone book for the I.D.W.” according to Weiss in the article that popularized the network. Nothing you linked to dispells that notion. Weinstein rather emphasises the alternative network character of the IDW, and I don’t care whatever Weinstein feels in his heart.

              If they were just a bunch of individuals, there would be no network or coalition of sorts, or a tribe, and no name.

              And indeed, that’s what you find: How did we get into a situation where Sam Harris defends Lauren Southern, who (at the time) already joined the “Identitarian Movement”
              Her activities were of course documented by herself on video, and gathered media attention. Harris was prepared to introduce her as a “conservative” but said he didn’t actually know her work.

              That’s pretty characteristic to this day. Where rubber meets the road, the IDW people never see anything. It’s totally blind on the right side. IDW also never heared or saw anything about Carl Benjamin. He appeared on Rubin Report warning about how white people are oppressed by elites who want to replace them with immigrants, i.e. white genocide. That’s somewhere on the 50min mark in one of the interviews. Just standard Dave Rubin Report. Of course, nobody never heard anything! Or the “Race and IQ” segment with Stefan Molyneux, a noted expert on population genetics. Why would this deserve airtime?

              Another example. Nigel Farrage said on Tommy Robinson: “we did not want anybody in the [UKIP] party that had taints with organisations we deemed to be on the far right of British politics, […] It really upsets me to see the fact this debate is even taking place.”

              Too right wing for Nigel Farrage! (for tactical reasons). Not so for the IDW people and their fans, who spread Robinson’s “Day For Freedom” event back then far and wide. The promo featured the british IDW network, who joined the UKIP recently (Benjamin, Meechan, PJ Watson) and their next neighbours on the far right side. Unsurprisingly. It also had on the promo material some key identitarian movement characters, next to Lauren Southern, there was Martin Sel*ner, austrian leader of the identitarians. The event was nicely promoted also in atheist IDW circles, e.g. Stephen Knight, GSpellchecker, who mocked media and people who pointed out the obvious far right flavour of the rally. See nothing, hear nothing. It’s not there. Nothing to see. What are you talking about?

              • Eric Grobler
                Posted January 23, 2019 at 8:30 am | Permalink

                I see your point:
                The “Evil Juice” are so powerful & evil that they even control the alt-right!

                “If they were just a bunch of individuals, there would be no network or coalition of sorts, or a tribe, and no name.”
                You obviously did not listen to the video Eric posted on the subject.
                There is no tribe, no official list, no website, just an ironic cheeky concept to get people engaged in real intellectual dialog.

                From your tone you seem to HATE people on the right like Benjamin, Molyneux and Southern.
                Would you in principle be prepared to debate them, let them see issues from your perspective?

              • Posted January 24, 2019 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

                I did watch it, and I know the corner very well. It’s of course implausible to pretend there was no common cause of sorts, with a shared audience (fostered by joint apparences). It’s also irrelevant, since I cite Bari Weiss. The NYT matters more on what groups are recognized, than what I personally feel about the matter. I find her list adequate.

                I also don’t hate anyone, which would be goal post moving anyway, but I’m happy that you recognize Benjamin, Molyneux and Southern as part of the IDW group. I think Benjamin is maybe redeemable. His politics are all over the place, and I was an early subscriber (unsubbed long ago, but YT spills occadional videos into my feed). However he’s presently far right, but at least has the illusion he is a liberal. Nobody but himself believes it, maybe he himself doesn’t, but his marriage with the Alt Reich failed and his divorce might propell him back to saner grounds. I don‘t know that much about Molyneux and how deep his racial views go, he’s more of a loon. But Southern campaigns for, and hangs out with the identitarian movement, who are part of the European neo nazi scene, she’s a Reichsfräulein.

                I would debate them, because I’m a nobody. If I had a name and a platform, I wouldn’t. I am in favour of free speech, however against platforming such characters.

              • Eric Grobler
                Posted January 24, 2019 at 5:38 pm | Permalink

                “but I’m happy that you recognize Benjamin, Molyneux and Southern as part of the IDW group. ”

                You know very well from my posts that I do not regard the above as part of the IDW.

                Sorry but I not prepared to engage with you anymore.

  5. dd
    Posted January 21, 2019 at 10:44 pm | Permalink

    “imperfect victim”…..Barri Weiss on Jews’ intersectional rank.

    • BJ
      Posted January 21, 2019 at 11:39 pm | Permalink

      She makes many great points here, but one really stood out to me, regarding the difference between antisemitism and other types of bigotry: “racists perceive themselves as punching down against a group that’s lesser. Antisemites perceive themselves as punching up against this secret cabal of wily operators who secretly control the levers of power.”

      I never thought about that. It goes a great way toward explaining why antisemitism is considered so much more acceptable than bigotry against other groups, and also why Jews get no sympathy from the intersectional/social justice crowd.

      • Zaphod
        Posted January 22, 2019 at 3:02 am | Permalink

        2 Things. I would expect that clandestine backroom discussions about pulling levers probably do feature a disproportionate number of jews, which of course is no excuse for baking the local bagel baker who has probably never seen a lever.Secondly, racists come in all flavours. There are those who don’t really care about who is racially “superior” but find an influx of clashing cultures disturbing and take the utilitarian view of race as a proxy for culture. There is your standard Nazi who thinks of the untermensch as vermin dirtying the gene pool. Weiss’s view strikes me as very white racist centric. There are probably as many factions of self-identified fighting the cabal racists as there are countries World countries. Ask the the Malays what they think of the Chinese.

        • Posted January 22, 2019 at 5:47 am | Permalink

          From where do you get your assumption that Jews are plotting in backrooms to sway elections? If you have no data, then that’s pure antisemitism. And did you hear Weiss celebrate the diversity of New York? If you can’t justify your first sentence, then just go away.

          • Eric Grobler
            Posted January 22, 2019 at 2:54 pm | Permalink

            “From where do you get your assumption that Jews are plotting in backrooms to sway elections?”

            Did he say that? Sounds to me that he meant that Jews are often disproportionately active or over-represented.

            The problem I see is that Jews (having a high IQ and a high work ethic) outperforms other demographics in important areas.

            This causes intense jealousy but also over-representation in many fields such as science, finance, academia, politics etc.

            Like Weiss mentioned, antisemitism is racism “upwards” not “downward”.
            Because Jews are so successfull they are the perfect target for conspiracy theories.

            In the victim narrative of the extreme left it makes perfect sense that they are deep down antisemitic – they hate the succcesful.

        • BJ
          Posted January 22, 2019 at 8:19 am | Permalink

          ::Rolls eyes:: I won’t bother asking for proof or anything. Even our esteemed host can’t get you to provide evidence of your claims, nor make you own up to intentionally discounting Weiss’ celebration of diversity, so there’s certainly nothing I can do.

      • Posted January 22, 2019 at 7:10 am | Permalink

        Its a great point. Any account of “intersectionality” that excludes the Jews is immediatley suspect, to my mind. If any groups counts as genuinely oppressed–they do. If you think otherwise then your moral compass needs a shake

        • Eric Grobler
          Posted January 22, 2019 at 3:09 pm | Permalink

          “If any groups counts as genuinely oppressed–they do. ”

          Not sure I understand, who is genuinely oppressed?

          • Posted January 23, 2019 at 7:13 am | Permalink

            Jews. They count as genuinely oppressed. For as long as we have had records (6K years), the worst kinds of oppression imaginable (e.g. the holocaust) and every type of victimization on offer (from genocide to victim-blaming). Is this news to anyone?

            • Eric Grobler
              Posted January 23, 2019 at 11:29 am | Permalink

              Historically I agree.

              But I would not say they are an “oppressed” minority in the US.

              Actually in historic terms I do not think there is an “oppressed” group in the US today.

              I am more worried about increasing hate/violence directed towards Jews in Europe.

  6. dd
    Posted January 21, 2019 at 11:25 pm | Permalink

    More Weiss:

  7. BJ
    Posted January 21, 2019 at 11:26 pm | Permalink

    “This video is unavailable”

    Interesting. I’ve clicked on quite a few Joe Rogan podcasts and never encountered this…

    • BJ
      Posted January 21, 2019 at 11:27 pm | Permalink

      It’s not posted again on his channel. I wonder if they’re editing something out for some reason…

      Very strange.

      • Posted January 22, 2019 at 7:11 am | Permalink

        Lets not get all tin foil hatty

        • BJ
          Posted January 22, 2019 at 8:21 am | Permalink

          Sorry, I didn’t mean to 😛 I just got worried. I swear I’m not a conspiracy theorist. And it does appear (from my admittedly poor memory) that the newly posted video is the same length.

    • Posted January 22, 2019 at 5:54 am | Permalink

      It’s back again.


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