Jeremy Corbyn celebrates terrorists who murdered Jews in the 1972 Olympics

We all know about the increasing anti-Semitism of the Labour Party. Some say that it’s simply catering to the Muslim vote, which is bigger than the Jewish vote, while others, like Nick Cohen (whom I trust) say it really is an anti-Semitism festering at the heart of Labour.  I’m rather eclectic on this, but Jeremy Corbyn’s constant pandering to Muslims has often verged on anti-Semitism, and this is one case. (Corbyn, of course, could be Britain’s next Prime Minister given the criticism of Conservatives for their pro-Brexit stand. )

This tweet from Maajid Nawaz (h/t: Grania) shows two instances of what can most charitably be called unwise behavior by Corbyn.  On the right, Corbyn was present at a wreath-laying at the graves of four Palestinian terrorists who killed eleven Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. This odious gesture has caused increasing consternation in the Labour Party over Corbyn’s reputed anti-Semitism. (On the left, he gives a Muslim Brotherhood sign).

First Corbyn claimed it was not a ceremony for the terrorist assassins. Then he said it was, but he “wasn’t involved in the wreath-laying”. Now it appears he might have been. But it didn’t matter whether he laid the wreath; what mattered was that he celebrated Muslim terrorists who killed innocent Israeli athletes. If that’s not anti-Semitism, it sure walks and quacks like it! And these are his weasel words of explanation:

“I was present at that wreath-laying, I don’t think I was actually involved in it,” he said. “I was there because I wanted to see a fitting memorial to everyone who has died in every terrorist incident everywhere. Because we have to end it. You cannot pursue peace by a cycle of violence, the only way you can pursue peace [is] by a cycle of dialogue.”

Yes, you can end terrorism by feting the terrorists! Lord, what has Corbyn been smoking? He was called out by several people on Twitter, most notably Nick Cohen (see below).

Cohen’s statement is absolutely on the mark, and makes a mockery out of Corbyn’s apologetics:

Corbyn should resign as leader of Labour. He does not have the judgment to be Prime Minister, and he’s perilously close to being an anti-Semite, if he isn’t indeed one.

179 Comments

  1. yazikus
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

    “I was present at that wreath-laying, I don’t think I was actually involved in it,” he said.

    I’m not expert on these politicians, but this statement does not leave one filled with confidence regarding the integrity and judgement of the speaker.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

      ‘… but I didn’t inhale’ comes to mind.

      • Geoff Toscano
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        …and “I did not have sex with that woman”

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

        I’da had a lot more respect for a certain Rhodes scholar if he’d said he never exhaled.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 9:49 pm | Permalink

      As with anything/everything said by Trump.

      • Taz
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 10:48 pm | Permalink

        I wish more of Trump’s bullshit was of “trying to cover up impropriety” type. He prefers the “big lie”.

        We’re going to build the wall and Mexico will pay for it, and reduce the deficit and cut taxes at the same time.

  2. Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:40 pm | Permalink

    When he was chosen I predicted, in print, that Labour could not long survive having Corbyn as leader. In a western democracy no major party can survive if it cannot convince its own supporters of its decency. Labour has indeed got a radical left, anti Semitic core, but they are not nearly the bulk of th party.

    So far I have not been vindicated. Perhaps I thought too highly of Labour voters, but it ain’t over yet.

    • David Coxill
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:15 pm | Permalink

      Here are some Jewish backers of Corbyn .
      https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2018/08/08/they-really-dont-want-us-on-the-media-says-a-leading-pro-corbyn-jewish-campaigner/

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:42 pm | Permalink

        Yes, and the Association of German National Jews supported Hitler. There is always a few. Doesn’t mean a thing.

        • David Coxill
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 5:03 pm | Permalink

          Yes it does ,just looked at the Wikipedia article about them ,it says ” Politically, the association was close to the national conservative and monarchist German National People’s Party which, however, refused affiliation with the association”.

          The leaders seem to have been naive fruitcakes .
          Would you say Noam Chomsky is one of the few ?

          • Posted August 14, 2018 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

            Chomsky blames Islamic terrorism on the United States. In fact, he blames every bad thing that ever happens in the world on the United States. But I don’t know that he is in bed with them, like Corbyn.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

        Jewish Voice for Labour are a handful of extreme left Labour members. Jewish Voice for Peace is a sham entity that promotes BDS and parrots Hamas propaganda.

  3. BobTerrace
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn is indeed anti-Semitic and a bigot.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

      Prove it!

      • BJ
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:00 pm | Permalink

        How much more proof is needed?

        • Mike
          Posted August 16, 2018 at 6:59 am | Permalink

          FYI, the terrorists who killed the Israeli Athletes are buried in LIBYA not Tunisia

          A Sky News reporter has gone rogue and challenged the latest smear against Jeremy Corbyn.

          British media outlets released another ‘scoop’ about the Labour leader on 14 August. Except they didn’t give readers the whole story, as Sky News‘s Tom Rayner pointed out.
          Massacre

          The Telegraph released a picture of Corbyn making the four-finger ‘Rabaa’ sign while reportedly visiting a mosque in 2016. It claimed the hand gesture is “a symbol of the Muslim Brotherhood”. Egypt designated the organisation a terrorist group in 2013. The UK, however, does not currently proscribe it as a terrorist organisation.

          There isn’t a universal understanding that the Rabaa sign is a symbol of the Muslim Brotherhood, though. So, Rayner got into a debate with a “counter-extremist activist” quoted by the Telegraph in its article.

          The “activist” is Maajid Nawaz, founding chair of the Quilliam Foundation. This is a ‘counter-extremism’ thinktank which has received funding from the UK government and a US philanthropic organisation “with close ties to the Tea Party and extreme right-wing Christian networks”. Quilliam also “facilitated” Stephen Yaxley-Lennon’s (aka Tommy Robinson) departure from the English Defence League – and allegedly paid him £8,000 for his “outreach” in Muslim communities.

          Maajid, the people Corbyn is pictured praying with are senior Palestinian Authority figures – people foreign office ministers meet regularly. And the 4 finger Rabaa gesture is in memory of the nearly 1000 Egyptians people killed by their own army on a single day. Details matter.

          — Tom Rayner (@RaynerSkyNews) August 14, 2018

          In Egypt, people effectively voted in the Muslim Brotherhood by electing Mohammed Morsi as president in 2011. But a military-led coup overthrew Morsi and installed General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi as leader instead. When people protested against the removal of Morsi, the army slaughtered over 800 of them in one single day. And the Rabaa sign is a symbol of those killings. In fact, as Rayner explains later in his discussion with the “activist”, the hand gesture wasn’t around before that massacre:

          There’s no need to get personal. I’m not trying to nuance anything away. The symbol didn’t exist before Rabaa. Rabaa was the largest mass killing of a civilian population on a single day since tianamen square. The people killed were MB supporters. I think those details matter.

          — Tom Rayner (@RaynerSkyNews) August 14, 2018

          The good, the bad and the ugly

          Rayner made clear, however, that he didn’t agree with Corbyn ‘associating’ himself with the Muslim Brotherhood by honouring these victims:

          Saying those details matter is not the same as saying it is right that Corbyn associated himself with the MB

          — Tom Rayner (@RaynerSkyNews) August 14, 2018

          But commemorating those slain in the massacre does appear to be Corbyn’s intention. A spokesperson for the Labour leader said Corbyn was “standing up for democracy” with the gesture. They added:

          The four fingered gesture is a well-known symbol of solidarity with the victims of the 2013 Rabaa massacre in Cairo.

          Clearly, Corbyn has backed the ‘wrong’ victims in the eyes of the media. Because these 800+ people protested against the overthrow of their democratically-elected Muslim Brotherhood-backed leader, they’re apparently not worthy of commemoration.

          Of course, the media isn’t shitting all over their memory just for the sake of it. In the ‘get Corbyn’ campaign, doing so fulfils quite a useful function. But not all journalists in the mainstream media seem willing to toe the line, as Rayner has just proved.

          • Posted August 16, 2018 at 7:19 am | Permalink

            Corbyn could give Nazi salutes and some of his supporters would claim he was only honouring people killed in Dresden firebombs.

          • Posted August 16, 2018 at 7:35 am | Permalink

            How can Corbyn have been making a sign in honour of dead Muslim Brotherhood people when they are buried in Egypt, not London?

    • David Coxill
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

      https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2018/08/06/jewish-support-and-solidarity-for-corbyns-position-on-israel-is-growing-globally/

      Don’t know how neutral these stories from the Canary news site are .

      But everyone else is slinging mud at Corbyn .

      Let me ask a question ,the law that the Israeli govt has just passed saying only Jews can be citizens of the state ,how is that different to the Nuremberg laws the nazis passed in 1935 .

      I have read that some Jews in Israeli are up in arms about it ,are they Anti-Semitic ?

      • BJ
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 5:53 pm | Permalink

        If you want to claim that Corbyn’s positions on Israel aren’t antisemitic, then fine. But (1) you have neatly failed to address the event that was the subject of this post, instead opting to talk about something else as a sort of half-hearted defense maneuver, and (2) you’ll need to explain away a hell of a lot more than just Corbyn’s positions regarding Israel to claim he isn’t an antisemite and a bigot. You’ll need to explain away many, many, actions, words, and deeds: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

        Regarding the Jewish “law” (it’s not technically a law): it’s much like what many countries in Europe have. In the UK, the Church of England is the established church of the nation. In fact, when the monarch is sworn in, part of her oath is to “maintain and preserve inviolably the settlement of the Church of England, and the doctrine, worship, discipline, and government thereof, as by law established in England.” She is considered the head of the Church.

        Many other countries in Europe (and other regions around the globe) have similar establishments, but nobody seems to go wild over those.

        • David Coxill
          Posted August 15, 2018 at 7:08 am | Permalink

          I repeat ,i don’t think Corbyn is an Anti-Semite ,he was at that event to mark the killing by the IDF of Palestinian people ,not to mourn the PLO terrorists from the 1972 attack .
          Corbyn might be an Anti -Zionist ,which is a different thing to being an Anti-Semitic .

          The law ! passed by Israel is aimed at the Palestinians ,you didn’t say anything about the Jewish people in Israel who have protested it .
          I will have a look at the link you put up .

          • Malgorzata
            Posted August 15, 2018 at 7:32 am | Permalink

            I suggest once again that you read the law and not descriptions of the law given by hostile sources. There is nothing in the law which is “against Palestinians”, unles you sign up to the stated goeal of both Fatah and Hamas to eliminate Israel and to have a purely Arab and Islamic state in its place.

            And I would recommend this article about anti-Zionism versus anti-Semitism: https://forward.com/opinion/407652/sorry-liberals-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitic/

          • BJ
            Posted August 15, 2018 at 8:39 am | Permalink

            I repeat: you have not addressed any of the other incidents of Corbyn’s antisemitism. Additionally, your defense of his actions in this particular event don’t even match his own explanation.

          • Posted October 11, 2018 at 3:33 pm | Permalink

            Given that about half of the world’s Jews live in Israel, one CANNOT be anti-Zionist without being anti-Semitic.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

        David, The Canary is an echo chamber for Corbynite adulation and not a serious news source.

        Some people may be surprised at the lying Corbster’s anti-Semitism but I am not. This is how it can come about that the leader of a left-wing party can be a conspiracist.

        Back in the 80s I was a member of a far left group called “Militant”. So I knew the other far left groupuscules about then, usually differing in their analysis of the Soviet Union and so-called workers’ states. All of them, with the exception of Militant, supported the use of individual terrorism to one degree or another. It was extremely common for them to support the IRA and the PLO.

        Corbyn at the time was a member of London Labour Briefing, successfully focussed on London and the middle-class cosmopolitan types who get drawn to the “romantic” escapades of terrorists. LLB also aimed to get MPs elected and they could rely on the help of fellow ultra-left terrorism-supporting groupuscules to do the campaigning donkey-work. JC, along with Livingstone, Bernie Grant and so on rode that tiger. He got elected.

        It is characteristic of these types that not only did they blame the west as if it conferred upon them some punkish cool, but they also worshipped the large exotic thing: some call this Orientalism nowadays, but that seems an overworked and largely meaningless sneer. Leftist westerners might adulate Mao’s China, Che or the USSR itself.

        After 1989, these types no longer had a mysterious Third World nationalist whose name they could revere so they looked elsewhere for oppressed regions as the source of their superior virtue. Assad and Saddam may not have the same ring as Ho Chi Minh, nevertheless the lying anti-Semite Jeremy imbibed the ideology that nourished them. Corbyn dropped the worship of the Soviet Union and picked up the defense of Palestine, Syria and Iraq. And in doing so, he took on the Stalin and Hitler-infused ideas of Ba’athism as well as the anti-Semitism of resurgent Islamism in the region.

        That, I think, is why he can perfectly honestly say that the Holocaust was barbaric, for that anti-Semitism derived from the European strain: Corbyn’s anti-Semitism grew out of the Middle Eastern Muslim variant.

        • BJ
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 7:22 pm | Permalink

          Thank you for a very interesting comment! You also have quite a way with words.

        • David Coxill
          Posted August 15, 2018 at 7:12 am | Permalink

          So you admit to be part of a group that nearly destroyed the Labour party ,hope you are proud of yourself .

          You might be right about the Canary ,but all news sites are biased one way or the other .

          • Posted August 15, 2018 at 12:00 pm | Permalink

            I think he used the past tense. I took it that he has since moved on in his political beliefs.

          • Posted August 17, 2018 at 9:17 pm | Permalink

            David, I have just seen your comment: “So you admit to be part of a group that nearly destroyed the Labour party ,hope you are proud of yourself .

            You might be right about the Canary ,but all news sites are biased one way or the other .” (sic)

            It would be more constructive, if instead of deliberately avoiding the subject of whether the Corbster is an anti-Semite, you would address the issue.

            Given that anti-Semitism is not solely about one’s ideas about the state of Israel, but also a statement about the Jews’ alleged ability to effectively and secretively intervene in, and manipulate, global conditions and opinion, answer this question with a yes or no.

            In his friendly Press TV and RT approval of anti-Semites and the Islington celebration of Iran sponsored by the Islamic Republic of Iran metaphorically pay-walled behind what he failed to anticipate of the scrutiny of the ideologically-diverse global media, do Corbyn’s actions and statements,comport with an anti-Semitic world-view?

            Be honest with yourself. Much more happiness, truth, beauty and wisdom will come to you that way.

      • Posted August 15, 2018 at 10:14 am | Permalink

        What law? There is no such law. Israel has Arab citizens, Arabs in the Knesset.

  4. Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:43 pm | Permalink

    I’m sorry you are completely wrong on this and you need to do more and deeper research. To start with none of the Munich bombers are buried at the Tunis cemetery. Fact! Similarly all the other lies and smears are part of a concerted campaign to blacken Jeremy’s name because he seeks justice for the oppressed Palestinians. You will see that none of the smears actually stick and that members of the Labour Friends of Israel have been filmed being offered bribes by Israel government operatives to smear Corbyn’s name.
    This has been filmed and is fact.
    Nick Cohen is not a respected journalist in the UK and should be read with a pinch of salt.
    Jeremy Corbyn is a lifelong fighter against racial inequality in all its forms. He has a greater track record of fighting antisemitism than any of his detractors. It is the Tory party and press (Daily Mail especially) that harbour genuine antisemites.
    Please do your research more thoroughly and don’t fall victim’ to the orchestrated smear campaign.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:51 pm | Permalink

      Of course, the memorial that Jeremy Corbyn laid the wreath at is a memorial to the terrorist group, as Corbyn himself says.

      The fact that the actual bones are not there is irrelevant. The memorial is.

      I imagine Corbyn will now refuse to lay a wreath at the Cenotaph in November because the soldiers are buried elsewhere.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:56 pm | Permalink

        Wrong there is no memorial for the Munich terrorists at the Tunis cemetery. You just lie and smear and it’s getting you nowhere as your credibility is now shot!

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

          Corbyn wrote himself in the Morning Star that a wreath were laid for the people killed by Mossad – which would have been Operation Hand of God, the operation to kill the organisers of the Munich attack.

          In 1985, the PLO was committed to the destruction of the State of Israel by armed force, and threw a 69 year old disabled , wheelchair bound Jewish man overboard from the Achille Lauro.

          Corbyn’s supporters claim that Corbyn was honouring *that* PLO – the 1985 PLO.

          • David Coxill
            Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:34 pm | Permalink

            But by 1993 ,the Olso peace accords between Yasser Arafat and Yitzhak Rabin showed that The PLO and The Israeli were willing to work together to find a peaceful way to stop the killings .

            • Posted August 15, 2018 at 12:01 am | Permalink

              But Corbyn was honouring the PLO of 1985, and also the attack on the Munich Olympics.

              He said so himself on Channel 4.

              When asked if he was honouring the people who died in 1985 and the Black September people who were killed he said he was honouring *all* who died.

              The people defending Corbyn can’t keep up with the man himself, because he changed his line literally daily.

              • BJ
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 8:41 am | Permalink

                First he want’ there, then he was there but not a part of it, then he was maybe a part of it but not really, then he really was a part of it but not for the reasons people think, then…

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

          Yes, there is, from multiple news media. Graves are there.

          • Posted September 3, 2018 at 6:53 am | Permalink

            No. They are not.

            • Posted September 3, 2018 at 8:35 am | Permalink

              Yes, there are.

              And it perfectly possible to have a memorial to somebody and lay a wreath there without there being any bones in the ground.

              Corbyn will lay a wreath at the Cenotaph this year. I expect all his supporters to tell us that wreath means nothing because nobody is buried at the Cenotaph.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

      Trebornos, a smear is not a smear if it is true.

      All the evidence that a rational person needs is in. Jeremy Corbyn is an anti-Semite. The more research you do on him, the worse it gets. It is irrelevant whether other people are anti-Semites. Whataboutery does not work.

      JC is not a magic grandpa nor is he Gandalf for anti-Semitism apologists who want to see British trains run on time. His automatic response to a terrorist attack in the middle of the Egypian revolution is to speculate on the “hand of Israel” and to call a Hamas terrorist a “brother”.

      The most generous description one can give of the bloke is that he is a credulous oaf, buffooning around the ME, lickspittling Islamists while they laugh behind his back as they set up another compromising photo-op. JC is pretty dumb, but he is not that dumb.

      The leader of one of the great western left parties is an anti-Semite and he has to go. Given the strangle-hold of the apologists on the party’s membership, structures and procedures, I do not see how he is movable. This is an object lesson in how to sully a banner.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

        The unfortunate fact that Jeremy Corbyn and Jerry Coyne have the same initials made my first read through of this comment a tad confusing.

        • mikeyc
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

          I did a double take too. Context made it clear, just caught me there for a sec.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:42 pm | Permalink

        There is NO evidence that Jeremy is antisemitic. All the smearing in the world won’t make it so! Check your agenda.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

      To pick just one line out of your unreflective propaganda–

      “concerted campaign to blacken Jeremy’s name because he seeks justice for the oppressed Palestinians”

      Corbyn never says anything about Palestinians being oppressed by Hamas or the PA. This double standard that only applies when Jews are involved is merely one indicator among very many that he is indeed an anti-Semite.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

        He has mentioned HAMAS negatively on.many occasions. Of course he has mentioned the PA. Are you even listening?

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

          All I ever heard is him saying he “regretted” calling Hamas and Hezbollah friends of social justice — without any explanation of how he could possibly have made such an inexcusable error of judgment in the first place.

          Why do you think he made those statements. Was he ill-informed, or was it a true reflection of his values?

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:50 pm | Permalink

      Okay trebornos, there are GRAVES of the terroists there: https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/14/uk/netanyahu-corbyn-uk-black-september-antisemitism-intl/index.html

      You’re just a craven apologist for labor. You should do your research more carefully, but you’re not going to post it here. You are a rude man and an apologist for the odious Corbyn.

    • Posted August 15, 2018 at 10:28 am | Permalink

      Whatever else Corbyn is, he is lying about the wreath

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6057277/Jeremy-Corbyn-wreath-laying-Palestinian-Munich-massacre-terrorists-gravesite.html

      This report also says some of the bodies are there.

      He also seems to be joining in the prayers for them. He says he wasn’t praying only showing respect. Isn’t that the offense itself, honoring these terrorists?

      Here are pictures of some of the relevant graves

      https://mobile.twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1028585157673054209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1028585157673054209&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theweek.co.uk%2F95805%2Fdid-jeremy-corbyn-mean-to-honour-black-september

      Your comment is riddled with falsehoods.

  5. Jon Gallant
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:45 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Corbyn’s weasel-words are uncannily like those of a certain, red-haired head of state in the western hemisphere. Maybe Mr. Corbyn’s next explanation of his non-involvement in the wreath-laying ceremony will be that, although he happened to be there by some sort of accident, there was no collusion.

    • Taz
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

      For large values of the color red.

  6. Ken Kukec
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:47 pm | Permalink

    Why in the fuck would anyone — anyone! — attend a wreath-laying ceremony for the Black September terrorists who murdered innocent athletes in Munich?

    That’s unspeakably obscene, whatever one’s politics or views on the Palestinian question.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

      There are no Munich terrorists buried at this Tunis cemetery which is now common knowledge. You were dumb enough to fall for the Daily Mail smears more fool you!

      • bonetired
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

        He didn’t say that there were any Munich terrorists (at least you admit that they WERE terrorists) buried in Tunis. He said that Corbyn attended a wreath laying ceremony.

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:18 pm | Permalink

          So what is the significance. What does your reply add. Presumably there would be terrorists buried in a Tunis cemetery. So what! You’re really desperate!

          • bonetired
            Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

            You accepted that the Munich killers were, indeed, terrorists.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      Of course they were terrorists who said any different?

    • BJ
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:09 pm | Permalink

      I mean, why would anyone be a member of an antisemitic Facebook group, or be a member of a Holocaust-denying group for ten years (even attending their event in 2013), or defend Sheikh Raed Salah and call him “a very honored citizen,” or campaign alongside Jackie Walker after she said the horrible things she said, or continually refuse to punish Labour MPs for antisemitism, or call Hezbollah and Hamas “our friends,” or attend the book launch and pose for pictures with Hatem Bazian, or write a letter of support for Reverend Stephen Sizer after Sizer posted an article claiming the Jews committed the 9/11 terrorist attacks?

      It really seems like there’s only one possible reason.

  7. BobTerrace
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

    Research:

    The New Yorker, The Independent, The Guardian, The Washington Post, the National Review, Wikipedia, etc., etc. all talk about Corbyn’s antisemitism.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:20 pm | Permalink

      No they “talk” about it but there is no incontrovertible evidence. Those you name just copy each other and do incredibly lazy journalism!

      • BobTerrace
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

        Yeah, you’re right and the entire rest of the world is wrong. We know your type…LOL

      • BJ
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

        https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

        There is a mountain of incontrovertible evidence. You just don’t like that it exists. I feel sorry for you.

      • Taz
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 11:24 pm | Permalink

        Those you name just copy each other and do incredibly lazy journalism!

        Why do I feel as though you’ve done absolutely zero research to back up that claim?

  8. mikeyc
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    I was in Tunis (actually in a suburb called Haman Lif) when the Israelis bombed the PLO. I remember watching the jets diving – they looked like wasps. It is true that civilians were killed in the bombing, but that’s because they were in the PLO headquarters at the time. They put the surgical in “surgical strike”, I tell you what; the only buildings destroyed or hit were in the PLO compound.

    Most of my Tunisian friends were torn between hatred for the Israelis and hatred toward the PLO. No other Arab country would host the PLO and Tunisia, being the poorest of the bunch (not a drop of oil), had to eat a lot of crap from the Arab league. One of those turds they were required to swallow was hosting the PLO.

    In the end, because I was an American AID worker, we had to be evacuated to Morocco until things simmered down. We I came back everyone asked; “where’d you go?”

    Anyway, I feel for you Limeys. Corbyn is a disaster. Still, when it comes to asshole politicians we Yanks have even bigger ones in power (opposite in direction, though). So we win. I guess.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

      What an incredibly ridiculous account. You don’t win and you don’t call us like us. Thank you!

      • mikeyc
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        Wooo-boy. Nice to meetcha.

        One question, trebornos; what color is the sky in your world?

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:33 pm | Permalink

          If that is meant to be a “smart” answer, I don’t get it!

          • Dave
            Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:39 pm | Permalink

            You can add that to a very long list of things you “don’t get”.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

        Call us “limeys” got missed out.

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

          Wanna try that again in Her Majesty’s English, mate?

          • Taz
            Posted August 14, 2018 at 11:28 pm | Permalink

            I think he’s saying that he meant to type “don’t call us limeys”.

  9. Steve Pollard
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn and many of his supporters (eg John McDonnell and Seamus Milne) are members or ex-members of far-left British political parties, such as the CPGB, and are longstanding opponents of the US and its allies, especially of course mainstream UK Governments, which they regard as the main instigators of the world’s problems. This has led them, over the years, to lend unquestioning support to the Soviet Union and (while it existed) the Warsaw Pact, and to oppose NATO and the EU.

    It has also led them to support all those who are opposed to the policies of the West, including the IRA, the various Palestinian terrorists, and the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah. Many of them oppose the very existence of the state of Israel.

    There is no chance that Corbyn will go against the instincts of a lifetime, and condemn Islamic terrorism in the same way he condemns the actions of the Israeli Government (many of which, I acknowledge, are difficult to defend). He would be a disaster as leader of my country – and this is before we even get near McDonnell’s Stalinist economic policies.

    I don’t know who trebornos may be, but she or he is wrong: Nick Cohen is one of the most honest and best-respected of British journalists, and should be read with attention.

    • bonetired
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:09 pm | Permalink

      Problem with Corbyn is that he doesn’t have the intellect (2 “E”s at A level) to change his mind. He will continue to be ideologically pure despite all the evidence that is presented to him to the contrary. Rather like a creationist actually.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:15 pm | Permalink

        Utter nonsense – you don’t appear to be too bright yourself.

        • mikeyc
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

          Dude, you’re new here. Watch your language or you won’t last.

          This is NOT your average website.

          • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:31 pm | Permalink

            I have been following Coyne for many years (at least 5) so I need no lessons from you. Thank you. I think Jerry is wrong on this one. There is absolutely no evidence whatever that Corbyn is antisemitic. In fact his historic posts and attendances at pro-Jewish memorials and events is probably much much better than his detractors.

            • mikeyc
              Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

              It’s your language trebornos. If you want respect, treat people with respect.

            • Malgorzata
              Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

              The man who thinks that Israel should not exist (listen to what he said to Iranian TV), who thinks that Israel is a racist, apartheid state and has no right to defend itself, who calls Israel’s mortal enemies of Israel his friends, who has been proudly standing on many platforms side by side with known antisemites, who posted and liked the posts on websites which posted also old-fashioned antisemitic material (and when it was revealed just deleted his Facebook presence), who put wreath in memory of terrorists who killed Israeli athletes (you can deny it, but read what he himself wrote 2014 in the Morning Star about this ceremony), who wanted to change the name of Holocaust Memorial Day by removing the word “Holocaust” – but who says that he is “against antisemitism and all forms of racism” – this man is not antisemite in your opinion? Then who is?

              • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:48 pm | Permalink

                All your facts here are wrong. He has never ever said Israel has no right to exist. Whete do you get your “facts” from?

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

                All my facts are documented. The questioning of Israel’s right to exist is here: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/new-footage-shows-corbyn-saying-bbc-has-bias-towards-saying-israel-has-a-right-to-exist-1.468101 Of course, he is a politician so he didn’t say it straight but saying what he said on Iranian state TV, state which promises daily erazing Israel from the map and shouting “DEath to Israel” gives a special meaning to his words.

              • BJ
                Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:14 pm | Permalink

                The further I get in this comments section, the harder it is to tell if trebornos is an idiot, a troll, or someone so racked with tribalism and hysteria that his mind can’t contemplate any fact that disagrees with his worldview.

                Hey, the latter option sounds just like Jeremy Corbyn.

            • Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

              If you’ve been following ‘Coyne’ for years you’d know he prefers ‘Jerry’, ‘Professor Ceiling Cat’ or ‘PCC’. I don’t think anyone here ever calls him ‘Coyne’.

        • bonetired
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

          You deny that he has 2 “E”s at A level?

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:30 pm | Permalink

          What’re you, trebornos the insult dog?

        • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:56 pm | Permalink

          I’m sorry but Mr. Trebornos has left the building, evicted for rudeness and for repeatedly making unsubstantiated claims. We don’t need that kind of rudeness at this site. Seriously, calling someone “not too bright” here? That’s a ticket to the egress.

          Bye!

          • Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:17 pm | Permalink

            I am not surprised at the expulsion, Jerry. For 2 years I have attempted to discuss with Corbster apologists and Trebornos is a perfect example of them, rude, impervious to evidence and creepily defensive of Corbyn. The description of them as cultish is obvious, tiresome in its repetition, but also true.

            I think the UK political atmosphere has got to the stage where they know that we know that lots of them are willing to overlook anti-Semitism and they just do not care: were I them I could not bear to be thought of like that.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:25 pm | Permalink

      This is a really false comment far from being extreme left-wing Corbyn and crew are moderate social democrats as per Portugal, Norway, Sweden etc. Spew your lies elsewhere.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

        You’re not fooling anyone. Even Corbyn would not agree with you.

  10. Graham Head
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

    He won’t be resigning. As you can see from trebornos’posts his faction will do / believe anything to hold onto power within the Labour Party. Even if it means we cannot win against a tory government that is driving the country to distruction. They only care about their own factional infighting.

    I’m a longstanding Labour member who left because of Blair and Iraq. I rejoined Labour after Corbyn’s election specifically to vote against Corbyn in the second leadership election. He is a complete disaster for Labour and Britain.

    • Nicolaas Stempels
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:10 pm | Permalink

      And for Europe. I mean Brexit is a disaster for Britain, but it is bad for Europe and the reast of the ‘free world’ too. I still have some small hope the Brits will come to their senses and abandon Brexit altogether, but must we rely on Mr Corbyn for that (I’m not even sure he actually is anti-Brexit)? Anti-semite he has shown himself to be, whether for cheap opportunistic political reasons, long-standing anti-Western ideology or other.
      Labour should get rid of him stante pede.
      Note, I may sound a bit like a conspiracy crackpot now, but after a Russian shill usurped the White House I’m surprised at nothing anymore: how much was Brexit promoted by Russians, or Mr Putin, to be more precise? I mean, Brexit is a Golden Gift to his purposes, now isn’t it?

  11. Malgorzata
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:12 pm | Permalink

    sub

  12. Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I hold no brief for Israel or Palestine.
    I say that Corbyn’s bias is reprehensible.

  13. David Coxill
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

    I don’t think Corbyn is an Anti-Semite ,but he has been very stupid handling the whole affair .Here is a bloke named Giles Fraser and his take on the whole sorry affair .
    https://unherd.com/2018/08/jeremy-corbyn-antisemitic/

    • mikeyc
      Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

      I was wondering about this. From this side of the pond he looks to me like a real idiot, an unserious bloke who hasn’t got the wits to be evil. Just an easy to use fool.

      Have I got it wrong?

      • Graham Head
        Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

        No.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

        In a word: yes! I suggest that you look into this far more deeply to get an understanding of the deeper issues here. Antisemitism is not the issue here. It’s a fight for the soul of the Labour Party which has the largest membership of any European political party. There are groups within the party who are not socialists and will do anything, say anything, smear anything to get Jeremy to resign. He won’t because he has a clear conscience and has nothing to resign for.

        • mikeyc
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

          That wasn’t so hard, was it trebornos? Not being a dick, I mean.

          You’re right. I should look into Corbyn more deeply to understand if I gotten him wrong. It’s kind of why I asked – I am well aware that the very limited news coverage I’ve seen of him is likely biased in some way.

          But from over here he looks like just another moronic politician pandering to the antisemites in his party. If you’ve got a link to a source that might give a different impression, by all means post it. I’ll read it.

          • BJ
            Posted August 14, 2018 at 4:16 pm | Permalink

            Just read this: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

            He’s an out-and-out antisemite.

            • David Coxill
              Posted August 15, 2018 at 7:42 am | Permalink

              The Spectator is right wing ,what do you expect.

              • BJ
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 8:44 am | Permalink

                So all the incidents listed in there simply didn’t happen? Is that your claim? If it’s not, your comment is nothing but yet another non-sequitur in an attempt to distract everyone from the fact that you cannot explain away all these incidents.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

                Don’t know if they are true or not ,you could find the same things being said by right wings politicos .

                The whole thing was started by the conservative Jewish newspapers to smear Corbyn
                because the tory party are scared of losing the next GE .

              • Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

                In 1987, the Sunday Express ‘smeared’ Corbyn by reporting his exact words as he paid tribute in Conway Hall to dead IRA terrorists.

                Obviously, in 1987, people were terrified that Corbyn would become Prime Minister in 2020 and so started smearing him.

              • BJ
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 4:05 pm | Permalink

                Ah, those dirty Jewish newspapers!

                You “don’t know” if they’re true or not? Did you bother reading the article? Because each incident provides names, dates, etc., all of which you can look up and find in multiple other reliable sources.

                And, since they are true, and since you will find them to be true if you wish to in any way try and confirm them (since the extremely meticulous and thorough information in the link I posted should be sufficient, but you’re trying to discredit the source), will you now admit that Corbyn is, indeed, a bigot/antisemite, and that the Labour party has an antisemitism problem? I think not. I think that nothing will get you to admit such a thing because you don’t care about the truth; you only care about defending your tribe and your odious leader.

              • BJ
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 4:08 pm | Permalink

                And your refusal to confront truth and willingness to instead make accusations of conspiracies by Jews to smear Corbyn and Labour demonstrates that not only are you in good company with antisemites, but that your disdain for Tories as somehow less truthful than people like you and those you support is mere piffle — a trifling and pitiful attempt to deflect, rather than an earnest belief in truth and taking responsibility for the consequences of one’s policies and beliefs.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 16, 2018 at 8:00 am | Permalink

                I said i wasn’t going to comment any more ,but i see you have compared me to an anti semite ,i am not ,so you can go p**s up a rope .

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

        I think so, Mikey. Think the mien of Chauncey Gardiner crossed with the meaning of George Galloway.

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

          Good one, Dermot.

          • Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

            Not bad. He isn’t malevolent, but I don’t think the people who elected him chairman realised they were electing a Prime Minister candidate.

            • Posted August 14, 2018 at 3:10 pm | Permalink

              JP, Corbyn was elected Leader of the Labour Party, not Chairman. And the leader of the Opposition is always a candidate for Prime Minister.

              • Posted August 14, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

                Yes, of course, up here in Finland we wouldn’t use the term “Leader”.

                Sometimes people get elected not to win, but to lose by an inch to make way for someone else.

              • Posted August 14, 2018 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

                Chairman Corbyn. I think it might fit.

      • Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:19 pm | Permalink

        I used to think he was a well-meaning idiot, like a modern-day Michael Foot. Now I think he’s genuinely malevolent.

  14. Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn is also singing from the Putin songbook. He actually seems to be a closet supporter of Brexit too, expressing only occasional and half-hearted opposition. He even took a holiday during the weeks before the vote.

    He is a classic example of the kind of leftist Nick Cohen described in his excellent book What’s Left, supporting anyone who will oppose ‘Western capitalist neo-colonialism’, including IRA terrorism, the Iranian regime, and Hamas and Hezbollah.

  15. Posted August 14, 2018 at 1:52 pm | Permalink

    It’s possible — just — that Corbyn is not anti-Semitic.

    One thing he definitely is is pro Marxism and anti the West and especially anti anything the Great Satan does. Therefore he’s against Israel and pro the Palestinians.

    • peepuk
      Posted August 17, 2018 at 5:38 am | Permalink

      Agree, describes my thoughts about Jeremy Corbyn very nicely.

  16. Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:06 pm | Permalink

    As Julie Lenarz notes:

    “The problem, of course, is not just one man. The ultra-loyalists who surround Corbyn and roll out an excuse — no matter how shameful — every time he is caught whitewashing his history with extremists are just as much responsible for the morally depraved situation in which the Labour party now finds itself.”

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/08/jeremy-corbyn-anti-semite-supports-terrorists-holocaust-deniers/

    From what I’ve seen on twitter and in comment sections, defenders of Corbyn fall into two categories: those who claim he’s not an anti-Semite because of his half-hearted and ambiguous walk-backs (in which he somehow manages to toss in an attack on Israel and ‘Zionists’); and those who simply spew out anti_semitic filth themselves — it’s all a plot by the ‘Zionist-controlled media’ etc.

    What I never see from Corbyn’s defenders is a clear, unequivocal condemnation of anti-Semitism or any real awareness of what it is or how to recognize it.

    • Posted August 14, 2018 at 2:29 pm | Permalink

      You know in a sitcom when the nice liberal guy is taking in his washing one night and a gust of wind blows a white sheet around him and a pillowcase lands on his head?

      And for some reason the wooden kite frame he has in his garden catches fire like a burning crucifix – just as the black couple who live next door are walking past?

      That’s really how Corbyn’s supporters see him.

  17. AC Harper
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 3:36 pm | Permalink

    Corbyn has just been referred to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards about irregularities of his trip to Tunisa, including allegedly not declaring the trip itself and who funded it, in the Register of Members Interests.

    Now the complainant is a Conservative MP so there’s a bit of political point scoring involved, but if the Standards Commissioner rules that Corbyn broke Commons rules on declaring an overseas trip, he will have to make an apology to MPs. In theory, he could be suspended from the House.

  18. BJ
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 3:57 pm | Permalink

    There is absolutely NO doubt that Corbyn is an antisemite, nor is there doubt that Labour has a serious antisemitism problem. Here’s an article from March that lists 50 antisemitic incidents from Labour, and one might note that almost all of the incidents involving MPs and other politicians went unpunished. Additionally, there are a few for Corbyn that didn’t even make this list.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/labours-pockets-of-anti-semitism-the-evidence/

    He’s not just courting the Muslim vote. Corbyn is 100% an antisemitic buffoon, and plenty of Labour members and voters (read that article, which notes just a handful of the instances involving student groups at universities) are, as well.

  19. Posted August 14, 2018 at 6:46 pm | Permalink

    Reblogged this on The Logical Place.

  20. Sarah
    Posted August 14, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

    Jeremy Corbyn has made a career of being safely out of power and having no responsibility and sniping at the leaders of his own party. He reminds me of a dog who has always chased cars and has finally caught one and doesn’t know what to do next.

  21. Posted August 14, 2018 at 10:17 pm | Permalink

    As a U.S. citizen, I know very little about British politicians of the present and their stances. I may not remember a huge amount, but have read a lot of British history and have always been proud many aspects of my British heritage.

    I don’t know Mr. or Ms. trebornos and the validity of his/her view of Corbyn. The manner in which his/her responses are written are rude in the extreme, not customary here. And, other than continually remarking that others were wrong, did not take the opportunity to provide documentation for his/her position. If what you say is true, support it with facts, not bluster.

  22. Malgorzata
    Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:31 am | Permalink

    To David Coxill:
    You should read the law as it was passed by Knesset, not hostile interpretation of it. It’s just a lie that this law says that only Jews can be citizens of the state, and a very malicious lie at that. Here is what the law says about Jews and Israel: “The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people.” This is about collective rights of the Jewish people, not about individual rights of Israel’s citizens. There are in Israel citizens of almost all possible ethnicities and the Arab citizens constitute 20% of population. All Israeli citizens have equal individual rights. But they do not have equal collective right to the state. Here is a quotation of an Israeli author trying to explain consequences of giving two nations national rights in one state:

    ”Israel could become a binational nation-state, in which Jews and “Palestinians” would each have special rights to determine the nature of the state, its demography and its symbols; or – their ultimate objective – it could become a Palestinian nation-state.
    It’s important to understand that these demands are separate from the call for a Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria. That state would be 100% Palestinian from the start, with a Jewish population of zero, like so many other Arab states. The rights the Arab citizens are demanding are in the state of Israel, the part west of Green Line. A binational Israel would most likely need a new flag and national anthem; but most importantly, it could do away with a Law of Return for Jews – or it could simply add one for Arabs. Soon, possibly after a bloody civil war, there would only be one state between the river and the sea, Palestine.” (http://abuyehuda.com/2018/08/will-israel-remain-a-jewish-and-zionist-state/)

    About Arafat and Oslo peace accord: Arafat signed this peace accord because he treated it as a temporary truce until he would be strong enough to conquer the whole Israel. He said that it was like a treaty Mohammed signed with Koraish (Treaty of Hudaybiyyah). Read this speech by Arafat from 1994 (after signing Oslo I but before signing Oslo II): https://iris.org.il/quotes/joburg.htm
    And the proof that his intentions were not only words was the bloody Intifada he unleashed.

    • David Coxill
      Posted August 15, 2018 at 7:56 am | Permalink

      Why are some Jewish people in Israel protesting against it then .

      I don’t think the plo would ever have been strong enough to conquer the whole of Israel .

      I have symphony for the Jewish people ,they have been murdered ,abused and generally pushed around for hundreds of years .

      They deserve a homeland ,but what abouty lol the Palestinian people ?

      I am reading a book at the moment ,”Jerusalem 1913 ”
      In it the author says that some Zionists aimed to be the leaders of the new state they were planning ,other Zionists were concerned that that would lead to violence with the Arabs.

      • Malgorzata
        Posted August 15, 2018 at 8:10 am | Permalink

        Jews are not any kind of monolith and Israel is a democracy. You can find all kinds of political opinions there, freely expressed.

        Until 1960s. there was no “Palestinian people”. There were Palestinian Arabs. Jewish inhabitants of this territory were called Palestinians until creation of Israel. Arabs were even offended if they were called “Palestinians”. Here is an interview with one of PLO leaders, Zuheir Mohsen, from 1977, explaining how

        “The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality, today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism.

        “For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.”

        He was not the only one who stated it openly though other factions of Palestinian Arabs wanted unity with Syria, not with Jordan. I do not doubt that after decades of propagating this narrative there now is a Palestinian people. A very new and young one, but a people. It would be nice if their leaders had any othe aim for them than being a cannon fodder in the fight against Israel.

        • David Coxill
          Posted August 15, 2018 at 10:26 am | Permalink

          Ok ,but call them what you will ,what about the people who a 100 years ago made up the majority living in Palestine ,where should they go .

          I admit i don’t a lot about the I/P conflict ,so maybe i should keep quiet .

          Answer this ,why should a people be allowed to say they are going to set up a country where other people are living .

          The Greeks used to control the land now known as Turkey ,same for the native peoples of America ,no one is suggesting that they have any right to go back to how things used to be .

          PS ,i forgot ,about the Jewish people protesting in Israel ,you say it is their right to protest ,you don’t say anything about why they are protesting ?

          • Sarah
            Posted August 15, 2018 at 10:40 am | Permalink

            100 years ago the Arabs living in what was to become the British Mandate for Palestine could have gone to live in the four-fifths of it that became the Kingdom of Transjordan in the 1920s. The ancestors of most of today’s “Palestinians” weren’t there yet, but in neighbouring Arab countries. They came later because of the employment opportunities offered by the Zionists. The history of the place is full of irony.

            • David Coxill
              Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:25 am | Permalink

              In the book i am reading at the moment ,it says there were 80.000 Jews and 500.000 Arabs living in the then province of the Ottoman Empire called Palestine ,why should they have had to move ?
              What about my point about the Greeks and the Natives in America ?

              Another thing ,someone else has touched on ,Jewish people blew up The King David Hotel in 1947/8 ? ,was that a act of Terrorism ?

              PS ,a lot of the Zionists didn’t want to employ
              Arab labour .

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:33 am | Permalink

                Yes, blowing up King Dawid Hotel was deemed by Yishuv (Jewish authorities before 1948) as an act of terrorism and condemned by Ben Gurion.

                I answered your other points in my previous comment.

              • Sarah
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:34 am | Permalink

                The population was not very stable in the way we might imagine. Most of the land was owned by absentee landowners actually living in places like Cairo and Damascus. They were only to happy to sell their poor-semi-arid land to Jews for inflated prices. (The early Zionists were very careful to buy the land–they didn’t just grab it in the way they are sometimes portrayed as doing.)

                As I understand it, the explosives at the King David Hotel were meant for a military objective and a warning was given. I don’t think it qualifies as terrorism because it wasn’t indiscriminate and aimed at civilians.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:01 pm | Permalink

                It was by any meaning over the word an act of terrorism ,the ira used the same excuse when they blew up pubs used by British soldiers .

            • David Coxill
              Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

              You didn’t answer my question about the Greeks and Native Americans ?

          • Malgorzata
            Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:28 am | Permalink

            People who lived there 100 years ago didn’t have to go anywhere. The land was underpopulated and underdeveloped, not to say totally neglected by all occupiers for hundreds of years. As soon as first modern Zionists came to the land, bought desert land and wetlands (not used for centuries and sold to Jews for exorbitants prices), and started to develop both agriculture and industry, many Arabs from surrounding areas came there to earn a living. Most today’s “Palestinians” are descendents of these migrants. During British mandate more Arabs came to Israel than Jews because British restricted Jewish immigration but did not restrict Arab one.
            Anyhow, the majority of Jews were sure that the land can have both Jews and Arabs. Had Arab armies not invaded Israel a day after it was constituted in May 1948, and had they and local Arabs leaders not called inhabitants to either help invading armies or leave their homes so armies would have an easier task to kill all Jews, there would be no refugees. These Arabs who stayed are forbears of today’s 20% of Israel’s population. In contrast to all Arab countries which cleansed their lands of Jews (there were more Jewish refugees than Arab refugees), Jews in Israel didn’t persecute nor expell the remaining Arabs. Really, if you want to talk about this conflict you should learn something about it.
            BTW many Palestinian Arabs wanted the co-existence with Jews, unfortunately, their leaders were killed off by Hajj Amin Al-Husseinis para-militaries who were under deep influence of Nazi-Germany and were armed in 1930 by Germans.

            And I can’t really answer your question why some Israeli Jews are protesting. Do you know why both Noam Chomsky and white supremacists, Bernie Sanders and David Duke want to change U.S., each one in their own way?

            • David Coxill
              Posted August 15, 2018 at 12:57 pm | Permalink

              Ok ,i admitted earlier that i didn’t know much about the subject .
              But in an earlier post i said there were 80.000 Jews in Palestine ,the year was 1908 ans i was wrong about the 500.000 ,there were 400.000 to 500.000 Arabs and Christians ,but whatever the number hhey had a right to stay where they were .

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

                Nobody denied them this right. They could’ve stayed but their leaders decided that it will be easier to kill Jews if they left the field to armies. Really, you should read about this immensly complicated conflict before you write about it. Here are some quotes from the Arab world: https://pl.scribd.com/document/21367168/Arab-leaders-tell-Palestinians-to-Flee-in-1948

              • Sarah
                Posted August 15, 2018 at 3:41 pm | Permalink

                At the time you speak of and later there was no question of displacing the sitting inhabitants of the area. There was room for everyone. Complications arose later with Arab demagoguery and a stoked-up nationalism.
                I was going to mention Alan Dershowitz, too. “The Case for Israel” was published in 2003. Dershowitz, as you may know, is a distinguished ex-Harvard professor of law. He wrote this book after visiting numerous American campuses and finding that the students were woefully misinformed about Israel. He says in the preface that he heard over and over “We didn’t know that!” His book takes 32 questions about Israel, quotes different statements pro and con, and explains his judgement very clearly. It is a well-written, readable book, and I highly recommend it. It won’t answer all your questions, but it’s a good start and gives a great overview of many of the controversies about Israel.
                End of commercial!

          • Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:51 am | Permalink

            The people who lived in Palestine a 100 years ago aren’t going anywhere. They are dead.

            There are now more Arabs living in the pre-1967 borders of Israel than there were in 1948.

            In 1939, Jewish football teams, specifically Maccobi Tel Aviv ,represented Palestine in football matches abroad.

      • Sarah
        Posted August 15, 2018 at 8:29 am | Permalink

        Why are some Jewish people in Israel protesting against it then .

        Why do people protest anywhere? Because public opinion is not 100% in any democracy. You have to look beyond the personnel of the mob–although it may be a useful indication–to examine whether their cause has any merit.

  23. davgar
    Posted August 15, 2018 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    well, we can all agree not support terrorist tactics, can’t we?

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-zionism-s-terrorist-heritage-1.6217633

    Perhaps it depends on which side they are on.

  24. Posted August 15, 2018 at 4:02 am | Permalink

    Corbyn’s response to the “pro-terrorist” charge (he also supports the IRA) is always to say that we must talk to our enemies to make peace with them. That’s fine, and (possibly) reasonable of a politician.
    But to be believable he has to also talk to Israelis. Which he won’t and never will.
    So–thats not “talking to your enemies”. That’s “taking sides”.
    Its complicated in the UK. The government is not homogeneous. The foreign office (for example) is famously pro-arab and anti-Israel on every issue. The BBC will never discuss Israel. Most of the home office is pro-Israel/pro aggressive American foreign policy–but on the quiet. So–its very hard to discern a consistent position. Here’s one take:

    Dr Coyne–the Brexit thing is complicated. Yes, the Tories are (sort of) pro Brexit–but their leader (Theresa May) isnt. And yes, Labour are (sort of) anti-Brexit. But their leader (Corbyun) isnt). Its a right royal mess, truth be told.

    • BJ
      Posted August 15, 2018 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      One of my favorite shows of all time! I own all the seasons (both Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister on DVD and have watched them too many times too count.

  25. Posted August 15, 2018 at 11:48 am | Permalink

    Apologies for
    1) Linking a video (I understand this is against the rules–I will check more assiduously)
    2) Referring to “Professor Ceiling Cat” as “Dr Coyne”
    Faux pas on my part. I will make sure it doesnt happen again.

    • Diane G
      Posted September 4, 2018 at 2:11 am | Permalink

      I think “Dr Coyne” is permissible. 🙂 It’s just “Coyne” by itself that sounds rude–as Jerry says, it’s as if he isn’t present on his own website.

  26. David Coxill
    Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:23 pm | Permalink

    Malgorzata
    Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:04 pm | Permalink

    Nobody denied them this right. They could’ve stayed but their leaders decided that it will be easier to kill Jews if they left the field to armies. Really, you should read about this immensly complicated conflict before you write about it. Here are some quotes from the Arab world: https://pl.scribd.com/document/21367168/Arab-leaders-tell-Palestinians-to-Flee-in-1948

    Ok ,i admit defeat ,i was wrong ,i will read more books on the A/I conflict .
    I have one called “The Arab ,Israeli conflict ,a guide for the perplexed ” i will read that next .
    I was going to start “Tropical Nature ” where the doc plays host to a Botfly ,that will have to wait .

    Just like to end with a question ,how do you think the A/I conflict will last and do you see a way of everyone living in peace .

    That is my last comment on the subject ,i will stick to looking at photos of cats .

    • Malgorzata
      Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:32 pm | Permalink

      I would suggest you read Alan Dershowitz, “The case for Israel”.

      About your question: I am not a fortune-teller, I don’t know the future, I do not deal in faith nor ideology, I collect facts. So I can’t answer.

      • David Coxill
        Posted August 15, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

        Ok ,my very last comment on the subject ,i will try and get hold of the book you mentioned .
        I think you could hazard a guess at the future ,but i will leave it there .
        All the best to you .

        • Sarah
          Posted August 15, 2018 at 4:27 pm | Permalink

          David Coxhill: One more afterthought. Another very good book is “Palestine Betrayed” by Ephraim Karsch. You might find that useful. Karsh is also a distinguished professor at King’s College, London.

          • David Coxill
            Posted August 16, 2018 at 8:03 am | Permalink

            No H in my surname .

            • Sarah
              Posted August 17, 2018 at 9:18 am | Permalink

              Sorry,

  27. Diane G
    Posted August 16, 2018 at 5:40 am | Permalink

    sub

  28. Posted August 16, 2018 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    Whether Corbyn is himself antisemitic is difficult to determine, because he is consistently careful not to answer direct questions:

    Q: “Will you condemn the IRA for their bombing civillians.”

    A: “I condemn ALL bombing.”

    Q: “do you support unilateral disarmament?”

    A: “I oppose ALL nuclear weapons.”

    It seems his ‘nicer politics’ amounts to avoiding being caught with your pants down.

    His common excuse for meeting Hamas, for working for Iranian TV and celebrating the release of terrorists, for … a long list of apparent favouritism towards the unsavoury, is his ‘peace’ mission.

    It’s odd that someone so intent on peace spends most of his time cozying up to one side while demonising and refusing to share platforms with the other side.

    A long list of Labour antisemites and their apologists. You might wonder where the votes are for Labour.

    • Malgorzata
      Posted August 16, 2018 at 7:36 am | Permalink

      I’m always a bit surprised by the argument that we can’t determine whether Corbyn is an antisemite because he never answered a direct question. As far as I know no cow ever answered the question whether she is a mammal but we still know that she is one.

      • David Coxill
        Posted August 16, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

        I have ordered a copy of “The case for Israel ” .
        And just be be fair i have ordered a copy of “The Case Against Israel ” By Michael Neumann.

        Both second hand copies ,off ebay .
        They have similar reviews on Amazon .
        I can’t afford new books ,i am a benefit scrounger /full time carer for my twin brother .

  29. David Coxill
    Posted August 16, 2018 at 6:32 pm | Permalink

    https://skwawkbox.org/2018/03/25/right-wing-cynicism-laid-bare-corbyn-didnt-even-defend-the-mural-the-row-hurts-jewish-people/

    This is about the mural that Corbyn is said to have defended !.

    I said i wasn’t going to comment any more ,but Round Objects to that .

    If some one would kindly put together all the things i have been accused of saying ,or not replying to i would be most grateful ,

    • Posted August 16, 2018 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

      David, I must admit that it is very difficult to tell if you are genuinely naive about the Corbster and have just not been following the avalanche of stories over the last few years about his anti-Semitism: or whether you are willing to admit in the face of overwhelming evidence that the lying anti-Semite is a lying anti-Semite.

      You could have, like me, checked these reports from the MSM (such a tiresome phrase) by researching them yourself and seeking out several different sources on the same story and come to a rational conclusion. It is not hard. Up till 2 weeks ago and Corbyn’s “hand of Israel” comment, I never wrote that he was an anti-Semite. Sure, his pattern of behaviour over decades enabled the most anti-Semitic elements such as Hamas and Hezbollah so the gun was not so much smoking as on fire.

      Frankly, so many episodes betrayed the Shropshire Lad’s real ideas that it would have been a wearisome work to go back and list the litany of adolescent excuses he came up with. And it barely makes a difference to the moon-faced congregants who swear he is the Second Coming. What is the point in trying to convince them? They really do not care whether he is an anti-Semite.

      Fortunately, Damion Daniels did the work that I had considered writing. Here: areomagazine.com/2018/08/16/anti-semitism-the-case-against-corbyn-and-the-labour-party/ A litany of some of the JC anti-Semitism stories. He knows, as well as I do, that it will make hardly a jot of difference to the cultists, but he deserves credit for bothering. There will be hundreds more stories which we will never hear about.

      If you were a juror would you vote Corbyn guilty or not?

      • David Coxill
        Posted August 17, 2018 at 8:49 am | Permalink

        I repeat he is not an Anti Semite ,he might be an Anti Zionist ,which is not the same thing .
        There are plenty of Jewish people who support him .
        https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/04/labour-party-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-jewdas

        In the above piece ,the author says that only 56 people have been expelled from the Labour for Anti Semitism .

        As i said in the first post on this story ,Corbyn has not handled the situation very well .And in the past he has been accused of being a Czech spy ,that shows how far people will go to smear him

        And because he attended a Passover event with members of Jewdas ,he has also been accused of mixing with the wrong type of Jews .

        Also there are plenty of Jewish people who support the Palestine people ,are they anti semites ?

        I will go back and check all the stories of his alleged anti semitism posted on here and see if they are true .

        Is it true that in 1948 the Israelis murdered people living in two Palestinian villages ?

        Also in 1982 they did the same in a refugee camp in Lebanon ?

        Am i a Anti Semite for asking these questions ?

        • Malgorzata
          Posted August 17, 2018 at 9:21 am | Permalink

          I think I’ve given you this link already but as you repeat the claim that anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism I will give it again: https://forward.com/opinion/407652/sorry-liberals-anti-zionism-is-anti-semitic/ Really worth reading.

          Asking questions is not antisemitic though it shows a strange mixture of ignorance and an obsession. Ignorance: the massacres in Lebanon 1982 in the camps of Sabra and Shatilla were perpetrated by Lebanese Christian militia and falsly blamed on Jews by Jew-haters.

          The massacres of Deir Yassin was researched by many historians since it happened in 1948 and even Arab sources admit that Arab leaders vastly exaggerated what happened there in order to scare own population. And it was a war of survival by vastly outnumbered Jews against five arab armies, just three years after Holocaust. Even if it was a massacere (which it wasn’t) – horrible things happens during any war.

          And obsession: since 1948 there were countless massacres in the area. You are interested only in the ones that are (falsly) associated with Jews. Do you know about massacres of Lebanese Christian perpetrated by PLO for which Sabra and Shatilla were revenge? Surely not. Any other massacres in the area which cannot be blamed on Jews? Jordanian massacre of Palestinian Arabs? No? It must be an obsession.

          • David Coxill
            Posted August 17, 2018 at 10:01 am | Permalink

            Hi ,thanks for putting me right about my questions about so called Jewish murders ,but then again ,if i delve deeper will i find saying you are wrong .

            As for your last paragraph i am not interested only in alleged murders carried out by Jews .
            As i have said before i don’t know much about the A/I conflict ,i have read books about the nazi murder of the Jews ,i am not an Anti Semite ,as i wrote before there are Jewish Israeli citizens who are critical of their govt’s treatment of Arabs ,would you call them Anti -Semites ?

            I am thinking of buying books by Norman Finkelstein ,would you consider him an Anti -Semite ?

            • Malgorzata
              Posted August 17, 2018 at 10:07 am | Permalink

              Norman Finkelstein definitely is an anti-Semite and his writings contain plenty of lies, half-truth and plain hatred towards Jews and towards Jewish state. Being a Jew is not a “get free card” from anti-Semitism. There are people who deeply dislike their country, their nation, their families even. What you say matters, not what your ethnicity is.

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 10:23 am | Permalink

                I can give you an example: Nazi general who supressed the Warsaw Uprising in 1944 (not Ghetto Uprising in 1943) and then systematically destroyed the whole city was Erich vin dem Bach-Zelewski, a man of Polish origin, speaking Polish as well as German. He didn’t have to be a “pure German” to hate Poles. A Jew can hate his nation equally easy.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 12:54 pm | Permalink

                All what you say is true ,but the author of the book you mentioned has been accused of telling lies in his books .

                Yes i know about the ss general you mentioned ,i have seen a Photo of the Polish Home Army leader surrendering to him .
                He was at the Nuremberg trial acting as a witness .
                According to the book “What the Allies Knew ” he told lie after lie .

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 1:07 pm | Permalink

                If you are not sure who is lying go to the documents from the time of the event. If you can’t do it (not easy) try to read contemporary accounts from books and newspapers, not interpretation given decades after. This is not easy either. So read proper historians and check what kind of documents they present. Evaluate them for yourself.

            • Sarah
              Posted August 17, 2018 at 10:11 am | Permalink

              Sometimes the relevant question isn’t whether someone is or is not an anti-Semite, but just whether they are right or wrong or have an axe to grind. The situation with Israel is extraordinarily complicated and the water is further muddied by “new historians”, doctrinaire far-left types like Jeremy Corbyn, and outright mendacious quacks. Don’t underestimate how much further reading you need to do to argue convincingly on this site.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 12:48 pm | Permalink

                Hi ,thanks ,i have heard of the term self hating Jew ,but Malgorzata and yourself seem to label any Jewish person who disagrees with you an Anti -Semite .
                I typed Anti Semitism in to the Amazon search engine ,and over 2000 titles came up .

              • Malgorzata
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

                I definitely do not label all people who disagree with me “antisemite”, only those who defame, demonize and lie about Israel and Jews. You are trying to label me and make your life easier.

              • Sarah
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

                David Coxill, your remark doesn’t make sense. I said a moment ago that the content of a statement is the important thing, not some label. I’m afraid your blanket accusation is pretty lame. Seriously, try to find out what you are talking about before making these pronouncements.

              • David Coxill
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 2:27 pm | Permalink

                I am not trying to make my life ,why should i do that ?
                Just pointing that there are people you disagree with and you label them Anti Semite .

                Give me some info about a author who you think gives a true criticism of Israel ,there must be one or two.

              • Sarah
                Posted August 17, 2018 at 6:03 pm | Permalink

                Well, David Coxill, are you interested in the truth of the matter, or are you just hoping that you can shore up your own half-baked opinions? That is not the way to learn or assess information and not the way to approach history. It is not like choosing a favourite football team and sticking with it regardless. Approach the matter with a little more objectivity. At the same time, don’t assume that you need to balance facts with non-facts for the sake of balance.

        • Posted October 11, 2018 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

          So I can demand English people to be deported from Britain and still not be anti-English? LOL.

      • David Coxill
        Posted August 17, 2018 at 8:55 am | Permalink

        Why are you calling him a Shropshire lad (like me ) ,he was born in Wiltshire ,AH ,caught you out in a lie .
        Forgot to thank you for treating me with respect while calling me naive .

        • Posted August 17, 2018 at 1:54 pm | Permalink

          David, Corbyn was brought up in Shropshire, not that it is that important.

          There are many strains of anti-Semitism, the most crude being the Christian-derived idea of the blood libel which trickled into mainstream Muslim disdain for Jews in the 19th and 20th centuries. It was during this period that the translations of “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” entered the Middle Eastern Muslim languages, as well as many other anti-Semitic tracts published by the leaders of Middle Eastern Islam.

          This new form of anti-Semitism encapsulated a grudging envy of the Jews as globally all-powerful, able both to secretly direct capitalism as well as to force Bolshevism on the world. It also inferred a self-pity for one’s own group as the Muslim world was evidently losing out to either the west or the Soviet system. The Middle East is now rife with anti-Semitic tropes which would not look out of place in the pages of Der Sturmer: do not the many Islamist claims that the Jews committed 9/11 not feed in to this humiliation narrative? The Jews really were capable of organizing 9/11 and getting away with it, while we oppressed Arabs could not possibly have done it.

          Corbyn’s “hand of Israel” fits this idea like a glove. An atrocity occurs in the middle of Egyptian chaos: it must be the Jews. They are the only ones with the nous, intelligence and organization to have done it. The mind which thinks this as his first reaction to such an event is the hopelessly conspiracist brain, the legate who kowtows to the prejudices of his Islamist interviewer and audience, and the peace activist so imbued with the anti-Semitism of the people he chooses to call the leaders of the oppressed group of his choosing that his first thought is to accuse their enemies of a crime with no evidence at all.

          As his much-vaunted strategy is to broker peace between these sides, this is sub-optimal in the extreme.

  30. David Coxill
    Posted August 17, 2018 at 2:48 pm | Permalink

    If you think Corbyn thinks the Jews were behind 11/9/2001 ,you must be mad .
    All he can be accused of is appearing more sympathetic to the Palestinians than the Jews .

    You are another one who thinks any criticism of Israel means you are an anti Semete .

    https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Netanyahu-interrogated-for-four-hours-in-Case-4000-media-bribery-probe-565130

    Above is a page from the online Jerusalem Post ,the Israeli PM is facing charges of bribery ,is The JP Anti Semite ?

    And somewhere else Bibi repeats the same nonsense about adolf being a Zionist as Ken Livingstone ,is the Israeli PM a Anti Semite.

    And am i an Anti -Semite for calling the PM Bibi ?

  31. David Coxill
    Posted August 17, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

    Hi Sarah ,which remark do you mean ,i am a bit snowed under here .

    • Posted August 17, 2018 at 9:09 pm | Permalink

      Enough! This is becoming a forum for Coxill,and it’s time to stop that.

      • David Coxill
        Posted August 18, 2018 at 5:18 am | Permalink

        Hi ,doc ,people are attacking me ,i am just trying to defend myself .

  32. David Coxill
    Posted August 18, 2018 at 5:43 am | Permalink

    I have ordered the following books .
    “The case for Peace ” by A Dershowitz
    “The case for Israel

    “The case against Israel” by M Neumann
    “You can’t hide the sun ” by John McCarthy .

    Along with the 3 books i already have about the A/I conflicts ,that should keep me busy for the next few months .

  33. Posted August 22, 2018 at 7:27 am | Permalink

    The way to get rid of the mindless old fool is to vote him out. It doesn’t seem that the Labour electorate care though. This appears to be the new standard that the non-liberal left wants to maintain: all things Islamic are good, Israel is a legitimate target for terrorism. In Italy we’ve put our own Corbynistas down in the last election. Perhaps we’re lucky our country has no concerns beyond Europe, otherwise our own leftists might be turning stupid by the day as they are doing on the British Isles.

    https://puttingupwithit709003799.wordpress.com/2018/08/19/the-italian-leftists-temptation-of-jeremy-corbyn/


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