Samantha Bee puts her foot in it—as does HuffPo

I’ve never been a fan of Samantha Bee. I don’t find her funny, and she’s a one-note Social Justice Warrior comedian, whose real schtick is dissing Donald Trump. Her fervor seems faux, too. Now Bill Maher does a lot of Trump-dissing as well, but somehow he seems a lot funner than Bee (for one thing, his delivery is more low-key, clever, and wry). Plus, to HuffPo, which I abhor, Samantha Bee is a recurring hero and leitmotif in their instantiation of Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Fortunately, I don’t even get the channel Bee’s on, and don’t watch much t.v. anyway. But this week she was all over the news for going off on Ivanka Trump on her “comedy” show “Full Frontal”. In particular, she used the words “feckless cunt” to refer to Ivanka, whose innocuous tweet, below, I wrote about the other day.

HuffPo went off on that tweet with a post (below) about how Twitter reminded Ivanka, in view of the post, of the “missing migrant kids.” Well, Ivanka doesn’t make immigration policy, and it’s simply rude to go after her for such a tweet, especially when the “missing migrant kids” weren’t her father’s fault, but kids who had arrived alone at the border, were placed into custody by Health and Human Services, and whose sponsors didn’t answer attempts to contact them. They were not “ripped from their parents”, either.

This was HuffPo’s article a short while back (click on all screenshots in this post to go to the original articles):

“Twitter”, of course, is not a monolithic person, but a social media site from which HuffPo culls the anti-Trump tweets it wants, and then reports these as if they represent a uniform American reaction. It’s a lazy and even duplicitous way of reporting.

Well, I have no use for HuffPo, but I’m more distressed at the people who went after Trump’s daughter for an innocuous tweet. We on the Left should be better than this: we should not totally demonize someone just because she’s Trump’s daughter, nor damn her for not influencing her dad’s immigration policy. It’s this kind of overreaction that makes us look ridiculous, and gives ammunition to the Right. There’s simply too much demonization from both Right and Left, and a lack of forgiveness, but it’s especially galling coming from our side.

But Samantha Bee couldn’t stay away from the issue, either. Referencing the very same Ivanka tweet, she ranted on this week’s show about the immigration issue, calling Ivanka a “feckless cunt”. The video has been taken down, but you can hear the relevant bit by clicking on the CNN link below:

Here’s the transcript from Vulture.com:

 “Ivanka Trump, who works at the White House, chose to post the second-most oblivious tweet we’ve seen this week,” Bee says with Roseanne reference No. 2. “You know, Ivanka, that’s a beautiful photo of you and your child, but let me just say, one mother to another: Do something about your dad’s immigration practices, you feckless cunt! He listens to you! Put on something tight and low-cut and tell your father to fuckin’ stop it.”

HuffPo then wrote about Bee’s tirade, but did so approvingly, repeating the erroneous claim that “the administration has lost track of hundreds of children who were separated from their parents and placed in foster care.” (They didn’t correct that one; the kids were not separated from their parents):

But then the pushback against Bee came, and not just from rightists. She was called out by Chelsea Clinton, Sally Field, and CNN’s Poppy Harlow, among others, who said Bee’s rant was offensive and over the line. Bee apologized (insincerely, I think, given that she said later her show had been preoccupied with a single word when it should have been dealing with immigration).

I’m not going to call for Bee’s firing, as some have done, and I’m not going to compare her case to that off Roseanne Barr, who was fired from her popular t.v. show for racist tweets. The cases bear some similarities, but also differ in many ways. In Bee’s case, I think that taking away someone’s livelihood for an ill-considered remark is going too far, though that’s the way of the world these days. (The “feckless cunt” remark was not off-the-cuff, by the way, but scripted and approved by the show). I’m sure Bee will be a bit more careful now, and may stay away from Trump’s family a bit more.

But the Way of the Regressive Left is to never apologize, but always deflect. And so we now get this whataboutery from HuffPo, which misses the point entirely:

The point is that Ivanka isn’t making immigration policy, and her father is, and that policy is not good. HuffPo has devoted hundreds of articles to it, but it can’t resist using BeeGate to get one more hit at her father:

But bickering over semantics misses a more urgent moral contradiction: Bee was name-calling. Trump was bragging about sexual assault.

Yes, Bee’s use of the word on her show was juvenile. And as Erin Gloria Ryan noted in The Daily Beast, it distracted from Bee’s larger point ― that Ivanka Trump could be doing a lot more to help keep immigrant kids from being separated from their parents.

But Trump’s remarks, captured while filming an episode of “Access Hollywood” in 2005, weren’t merely a verbal attack. He was bragging about violating not one, but multiple women, arguing his fame made it permissible. And the words weren’t just “locker-room talk” ― more than 20 women have accused Trump of sexual misconduct.

Trump’s comments are backed by the weight of his actions and the damage he’s inflicted upon women he “moved on” without their consent. Women like Mindy McGillivray, Karena Virginia and Ninni Laaksonen, who all claim Trump has groped them.

Or women like Jessica Drake, Temple Taggart McDowell, Jennifer Murphy, Natasha Stoynoff and Cathy Heller, who all claim Trump kissed them without their consent. Or Summer Zervos, a former contestant on Trump’s show “The Apprentice” who said Trump not only forcibly kissed her on the mouth, but also thrusted his genitals at her.

Yes, we know: HuffPo has told us a gazillion times. But what we should remember is that we can call out the bad behavior of our worst President without going after his family, or calling his daughter a “feckless cunt” because she tweeted a picture of her and her child. We are better than that—or should be.

The real “person” who should be fired is HuffPo, which practices whataboutery all the time, and not in trivial ways. For example, they could use this headline:

ACCLAIM FOR HIJABI FENCER SHOULD PALE IN COMPARISON TO THE OPPRESSION OF MUSLIM WOMEN IN IRAN, AFGHANISTAN, AND SAUDI ARABIA

But you’ll never see that on the site.

159 Comments

  1. Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:56 am | Permalink

    About Barr: IMHO, she lost her show because her show became radioactive to sponsors. Sponsors feared that if they continue to sponsor, they would lose money via boycotts (by many who don’t watch Roseanne).

    So to me, the show cancellation was a cold blooded bottom-line business decision.

    • Heather Hastie
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:33 pm | Permalink

      They cancelled before any advertisers had a chance to react. However, I agree. There would have been an advertiser backlash and ABC effectively stopped that.

  2. mikeyc
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

    Agree on Bee’s current SJW cringe inducing “humor”. She was, however, one of the best on the Daily Show where her regressive nastiness was apparently kept in check.

    • Randy Bessinger
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

      I liked her and her husband on Daily Show as well.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:16 pm | Permalink

      I enjoyed her on TDS along with her husband as well and even for a while wished they’d made her the host instead of Trevor Noah. Her show’s no longer funny but just scolding. I don’t care for how she alienates people who should be allies.

  3. nay
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    About the “c—” remark: If you’ve ever been called that by a man, which I have, it’s just whatever; if you’ve ever seen Samantha Bee on The Daily Show, she’s just that way (I had no desire to watch her show); if you think she’s “punching up”, it’s still (c)rude. However: I consider the woman-to-woman (c)rudity to be the same as Blacks calling each other the n-word. Move along; nothing to see here.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

      Thanks for your advice to “move along”,i.e. we should stop kvetching, but I don’t agree. Racial slurs won’t go away until EVERYONE stops using them. Witness the white people who aren’t even allowed to sing along with rap songs because they aren’t allowed to say the n-word. That’s insane.

      If a fellow Jew called me a “kike”, I’d take offense. What gives people the right to use offensive words if they’re members of the group?

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:18 pm | Permalink

        I think you are both right. At this point in time, one woman using the c-word to refer to another woman is not really that offensive. At the same time, I am against using such crude language for the reasons PCC(E) gives here and because it is a cheap device to get people’s attention. Good comedy and political satire doesn’t need crude language to make its point. I always appreciated Jerry Seinfeld and David Letterman for their ability to make us laugh without resorting to four-letter words. Bill Maher uses them but, most of the time, seems to pull it off.

        • Randy Bessinger
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:31 pm | Permalink

          I think that if you align with a group and words considered inflamatory outside of the group are ok within the group, it just further devides. I am with Sam Harris on this one, identity politics is a dead end.

          • Randy Bessinger
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

            divides

          • Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:49 pm | Permalink

            I agree. Even before Trump ran for office, I could see that the Democrats’ identity politics was going to hurt them. Obama smartly avoided identity politics but the fact that he was black still allowed his opponents to tar him with the identity brush. Then Clinton came along and seemed to make identity politics her main reason for running. Unlike Obama, she didn’t realize that it was a rail with 1000 volts going through it with Trump holding the switch closed.

            • Randy Bessinger
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:53 pm | Permalink

              I agree 100%

          • Barney
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

            Identity politics is working great for Trump. He got elected by white people who feel they’re entitled to extra privileges in the USA and the world.

            • mikeyc
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

              You and the Democrats keep telling yourself that and Trump or a clone will get elected in 2020.

              • Barney
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:21 pm | Permalink

                Well, yes, that’s the point. The American white tribe has a large number of deplorables who hate anyone else having any power, and so they vote for Trump and clones, while they’re still a majority. It’s the sickness of the USA.

              • Michael Waterhouse
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:45 pm | Permalink

                Barney.

                Of course your tribe is perfect. All the deplorables are over there, eh?

                No.

                It is the labeling of people as deplorables when it it is obvious that the vast majority of people are not deplorable that is the biggest problem going around.

              • Barney
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:53 pm | Permalink

                Michael Waterhouse,
                It’s the labeling of Mexican immigrants as rapists and murderers
                It’s the wish to block all immigration from Muslim-majority countries
                It’s the grabbing of women’s pussies
                It’s the attempt to not rent properties to black people
                It’s the insistence on the guilt of the Central Park Five after the evidence has shown them innocent
                It’s the systematic stiffing of contractors that do work for Trump businesses
                It’s the con job of “Trump University”
                It’s the ogling of underage girls in their dressing room at Trump pageants
                It’s the support of oppressive laws about abortion
                It’s the desire to trash Obamacare and put people’s health at risk
                It’s the enthusiastic voting for the bag of puss who did, or proposes, all this and more

                that makes the voters for Trump deplorable. The most deplorable since the US Civil War. Most of my tribe – white men – did this in the USA.

                Trump is an awful human being. One would have to be hate-filled, or really, really stupid, to not see and care about that.

              • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:07 pm | Permalink

                And the lying. So much lying.

              • BJ
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:10 pm | Permalink

                Wow, I didn’t realize everyone who voted for Trump did all those things! That’s crazy!

              • mikeyc
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:32 pm | Permalink

                I blame Barney and people like him almost as much as the MAGA hatters for the state of our country today; they contributed the impetus for Trump’s election. Trump is NOT the cause of what is wrong with our country he is a symptom.

                In the coming elections Democrats will listen to people like Barney, double down on the reasons why they lost in 2016, and they will fail. Again.

              • Posted June 10, 2018 at 3:02 am | Permalink

                + 1. Democrats don’t seem to learn from their mistakes.

        • Rita
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:04 pm | Permalink

          “At this point in time, one woman using the c-word to refer to another woman is not really that offensive.” WHAT!!!! I don’t know where you got that idea. I would be extremely offended if another woman called me that, and I think my female friends would feel the same.

          • Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:03 pm | Permalink

            Ok but I didn’t say “any woman” or “all women”. There are women who routinely use coarse language. I know a few and I doubt they would be very offended. Of course, being offended is a right and is clearly in the eye of the offendee.

            • infiniteimprobabilit
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

              I do hope that last sentence of yours was meant ironically.

              cr

              • Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:05 am | Permalink

                Not really. Just saying that everyone makes their own choice as to what offends them. Surely you agree?

              • infiniteimprobabilit
                Posted June 3, 2018 at 7:13 am | Permalink

                I agree that being offended is a personal thing. Where I disagree is any implication that choosing to be offended somehow gives one the power to curtail the ‘offenders’ right to express themselves.

                It is used as a weaselly tactic (often by SJW’s) to try and put the other side in the wrong.

                For example, if I say “I am offended by your views**” does that mean you shouldn’t have posted them?

                cr

                (**That’s purely for the purposes of illustrating my point, I’m not in fact offended, and my position is, it wouldn’t matter if I were).

              • Posted June 3, 2018 at 11:27 am | Permalink

                I totally agree. The SJW position that offense is self-justifying is garbage.

            • Posted June 10, 2018 at 3:06 am | Permalink

              “I know a few and I doubt they would be very offended.”

              I wouldn’t bet on it. I know people who are generous with coarse language but hate being targets of it.

          • Barney
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:31 pm | Permalink

            Of course Ivanka is offended by it; that was the point. The question is whether women in general are offended by the word being used to mean “the worst someone can be”.

            We don’t care what Ivanka feels; she’s a willing politician.

        • Heather Hastie
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:45 pm | Permalink

          Using that word to another woman IS offensive. I consider it a word that should never be used, and never have.

          And why is it less offensive to call a woman that than a man? That’s sexism. It implies women are less than men, or weaker than men in some way.

          Btw, that particular body part is a helluva lot tougher than men’s dangly bits! I also consider referring to people by words used for men’s genitalia unacceptable.

          There are plenty of other words to use to insult people without lowering yourself to sexism, racism, homophobia etc.

          • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

            I’m not in favor of using expletives, as I’ve said several times. I am not excusing Bee’s use of the c-word.

            There’s an obvious reason why it is better for a woman than a man to apply this word to another woman as they share that body part. It’s the same reason black people find it acceptable to use the n-word with each other. When used this way most of the sexism or racism is removed, leaving only the general denigration.

            Again, I am not arguing in favor of using either the c-word or the n-word but merely trying to keep things in perspective. I rarely use expletives myself as I desire to use more effective and accurate words.

            • Heather Hastie
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:34 pm | Permalink

              Some black people. There are plenty who think it’s wrong to use that word whatever the circumstances. And when they use it, at least in NZ, it’s usually between friends and not meant in a nasty way.

              Bee was being nasty. It was like Van Jones calling Paris Denard or Herman Cain by the n-word in an argument. There’d be nothing acceptable about it. It’s a liberal man buying into racism, like Bee is a liberal buying into sexism.

              I don’t want to make you feel like I’m attacking you personally, because I’m not. I see where you’re coming from and I get your point. For me, this is a much bigger issue. I could have made my comment just about anywhere in the comments.

              • Mikeyc
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:50 pm | Permalink

                Yes. Also true for transsexuals. A friend of mine and her friends object when other transsexuals use hateful words to describe themselves as a way to take the power out of them, just as Dan Savage uses “faggot”. There is a logic to it, but it still hurts and she doesn’t like it. Bee should have known that.

              • Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:57 pm | Permalink

                No, I’m not at all taking it personally. I don’t really think we’re even arguing. We agree that Bee shouldn’t have used the word so perhaps we’re in violent agreement. LOL

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:01 pm | Permalink

        There are three words in the American lexicon that are off limits, third rails that if you touch them you die — nigger, kike, and cunt. The first is different from the latter two in that it’s use in the US was at one time widespread and casual among white people. As a result, as a defense mechanism, to give themselves armor against the hurt and pain that word causes, black folk, at least some of them, adopted as there own, but for a very stylized use that’s unavailable to white folk. Jews and women have not done the same with “kike” and “cunt,” and those words remain verboten for everyone.

        Some terms, and some types of humor, are available to racial and ethnic group members, but not to those outside the group. I’ve heard Sarah Silverman, for example, use the term “Jew-y” to describe certain people or situations. That’s not a term that would ever cross my lips — not even with my closest Jewish friends, where mild ethnic humor is a staple (though it might cross their lips) — and I doubt any Gentile comics would ever use it in a joke. It’s the same with jokes by women comics, and black comics, and Latino comics, and gay comics, and groups of every other persuasion. There are lines the in-group can traverse that the out-group can’t.

        And there’s nothing new about any of this. Hell, Glenn Ford broke it down in just these terms for Sidney Poitier and Vic Morrow and the other high-school delinquents in Blackboard Jungle back in the Fifties.

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:05 pm | Permalink

          “their own” — is there an app for checking homonyms?

          • Ken Kukec
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:07 pm | Permalink

            “its use,” too.

        • Jenny Haniver
          Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

          There’s a female Irish American comedian, who has a local radio show here in the SF Bay Area. She’s very Jersey-NY, and she enjoys describing herself as “Jew-ish.” She says,”I’m not Jewish, but I am Jew-ish.” I don’t know how her Jewish friends react to that, but she’s used that expression when she has Jewish guests, also comics and I’ve heard no objections, but that doesn’t mean they didn’t feel a rub. I’m not Jewish so I’ll leave it to a Jewish person to pass judgment on that; but to me, an alte shiksa, it seems a harmless way to declare her solidarity. But I don’t know. That wouldn’t work with any other group. If “Jew-y” came out of her mouth, it would immediately be taken as a crude slur, but “Jew-Ish” is a play on “Jeiwsh,” so the linguistic form plays a crucial part. Saying “I’m black-ish,” I’m homosexual-ish is ridiculous; and one certainly wouldn’t say, “I’m nigger-ish,” or “I’m faggot-ish.”

          • Michael Fisher
            Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

            What’s this comedian’s name?

            • Jenny Haniver
              Posted June 5, 2018 at 11:55 am | Permalink

              Hope I’m not replying too late. Her name is Maureen Langan. Do a Google search and you’ll find lots of stuff.

              • Jenny Haniver
                Posted June 5, 2018 at 11:58 am | Permalink

                Her website: http://maureenlangan.com/

              • Michael Fisher
                Posted June 5, 2018 at 2:46 pm | Permalink

                Thank you. I’m checking out Hangin’ with Langan on KGO.810 [Three hours on Sunday nights]. I’m listening to her chat with Ron Jones on his ’67 fascism experiment. It’s OK – she isn’t dominating & her voice is calm. I’ll put her on my Podcast/radio list.

                Different story on her standup side – I gave her a fair shake on YouTube & she did the SAME set in 2015 as in 2010 [see below]. I listened to five sets & same shtick throughout – she does that very lazy character comedy.

                2010 Audience banter, Snooki [Jersey shore] got a book deal & I was an English teacher, Mother is Irish [New Jersey], mother’s advice in Oirish accent, joke about dating, & father was a garbageman, don’t criticise until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes, but I HAVE walked a mile in your shoes [father was a garbageman]

                2015 Audience banter, Kardashian’s got a book deal & I was an English teacher, Mother is Irish [New Jersey], mother’s advice in Oirish accent, joke about dating, & father was a garbageman, don’t criticise until you’ve walked a mile in my shoes, but I HAVE walked a mile in your shoes [father was a garbageman]

                PS From a Google search I find she did the same routine exactly at the Edinburgh Fringe festival in 2016 & in London 2017.

          • Ken Kukec
            Posted June 3, 2018 at 6:22 pm | Permalink

            Hell, I might even try taking “Jew-ish” out for a test ride myself, when I make like a Yiddisher — but only in company I’m completely comfortable with. 🙂

  4. Troy
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:59 am | Permalink

    Well said but…
    I took Sally field’s response to be a double down on bee’s words, not a condemnation . It was as if being called a “C” is an insult and Ivanka is so much worse, that a “C” (as bad as that is?) is multiples better than she.

    I’ve reread it several times and that was my takeaway.

    • Michael Fisher
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:17 pm | Permalink

      So that WEIT readers can see for themselves, this is the Sally Field tweet:

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:41 pm | Permalink

        I just love Sally Field!

        • Michael Fisher
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:52 pm | Permalink

          Yes, a lovely person. Far more to her between the ears than her screen image suggested during the Reynolds era!

          one of those actors whose talents are underused [I haven’t seen many of hers, so perhaps there’s gems I’ve missed]

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        Yes, I erred, I think. That’s not really a criticism of Bee!

    • Grant Williams
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:46 pm | Permalink

      You are spot on with this.

    • Heather Hastie
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:50 pm | Permalink

      I think it’s a criticism of both Bee and Ivanka.

      A lot of us woman think that word should never be used as an insult, especially by women. It’s sexist and buys into the casual denigration of women in general.

      I like Bee, but am disgusted she let the side down by using that word as an insult.

      • Michael Fisher
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:01 pm | Permalink

        Your avatar Heather – is that the Kiwi bird, but with arms/hands?

        Have you noticed the Amazon Prime ‘doco’, just out, on the All Blacks – six parts I think? Good stuff.

        • Heather Hastie
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:19 pm | Permalink

          Yes, Jerry sent it to me. It does look good, but I don’t subscribe.

          When my logo was being designed for my website, the pic of me was based on a Kiwi. However the artist had trouble getting it to work with the software. So she used a Tweety Bird and added a Kiwi’s beak and long eyelashes. The head is too big for a real kiwi, but that’s not entirely inappropriate either.

          • Michael Fisher
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:56 pm | Permalink

            I saw Tweetie Pie in your form immediately & of course Tweetie has arms & hands, but I checked with you because I know that Kiwis are dull brown & have heads as if they’ve been put through a pencil sharpener!

            The big head comment made me laugh, but you can’t ‘cartoon’ with normal heads – they have to be large. You are saying you have a high opinion of yourself I guess. All birds do. 🙂

            • Heather Hastie
              Posted June 3, 2018 at 1:53 pm | Permalink

              It’s the T-Rex in our ancestry.

  5. Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:09 pm | Permalink

    I think you hit several nails on the head. Samantha Bee’s delivery is insincere-sounding. She always seemed kind of juvenile. She obviously chose to use the c-word for its shock value. It is hard to believe she really is that outraged by Ivanka Trump’s inability to affect her father’s immigration policy.

    My guess is that she got a small amount of attention on the Daily Show and tried to parlay that into something bigger. She’s just not a political animal like Bill Maher. As much as I would like to see a woman do political comedy in a mode similar to Bill Maher, Bee isn’t the one. I like Sarah Silverman and she’s fairly political but more of a conciliator.

  6. Randy Bessinger
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:12 pm | Permalink

    Frankly, I am so sick of the “what about ism” on both sides. It never worked when my kids used it and it should not work now.

  7. Dale Pickard
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

    Ivanka, Kushner, and her brothers are up to their eyeballs in the cruelty and crimes of the family. With any luck, prosecutors will chase them down. I don’t see any problem with using strong language to call Ivanka out for her privilege and her outrageous hypocrisy. It’s enough to make one gag.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

      First, abuse is not the same thing as criticism. Nor is it particularly good comedy.

      If I take your meaning correctly, it’s okay to call a woman a “cunt” if you disagree with her politics. Would it have been okay, then, for Republicans to call Hillary Clinton a “cunt”? Or Nancy Pelosi? Anybody who did that would have been mobbed by outraged Democrats, and rightly so. But it seems to be okay if it’s Trump’s daughter.

      This is tribalism, pure and simple. “It’s okay to be abusive and nasty towards someone so long as it’s just WE who do it.”

      I’m not having it. And I’m appalled at the excuses on this thread made for calling Ivanka that name–by the very same people who would be OUTRAGED if Hillary or Nancy Pelosi were called the very same name, and for the very same reason: people didn’t like their politics.

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:19 pm | Permalink

        I think the ‘Put on something tight and low-cut and tell your father to fuckin’ stop it’ comment is worse than calling her a cunt based on what it implies.

        • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:26 pm | Permalink

          But what if what it implies has a basis in truth?

          7 Creepy Things Donald Trump Has Said About Ivanka
          https://forward.com/schmooze/357185/7-creepy-things-donald-trump-has-said-about-ivanka/

          • Michael Waterhouse
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:59 pm | Permalink

            That list is pretty innocuous unless you are wilfully looking for something to dislike.

            And, this willfully looking everywhere for something to dislike has destroyed the left.

          • BJ
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

            Bee is telling Ivanka she should dress and approach her father in a way that tries to appeal to a possibly incestuous attraction. It’s disgusting, and it’s far worse than calling her a “cunt.”

            • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

              I disagree. Trump made it a reasonable political jab via his own comments about his daughter. We’ve gotten a pretty good idea of Trump’s personality over the years and I think that this ploy might even work. No one is accusing Trump of incest but who would really be surprised if it were true? He has shown over and over again that he only cares about himself and that his sexual appetites are fairly unbounded. While we should treat presidents with respect, he hasn’t treated anyone with respect so deserves none.

              • Dale Pickard
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

                I agree with Paul. Trump is not above incest.

            • KD33
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:27 pm | Permalink

              I didn’t catch that at first, but it sounds like an oblique reference to Trump’s earlier comment that his daughter was so attractive that he’d date her if she weren’t his daughter.

            • Ken Kukec
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

              It was in poor taste, BJ, but it’s not like it was completely uninvited. Trump talked to Howard Stern on the radio about how Vanky was doable. And there’s the matter of this little pic of Trump père et fille:

              • Mikeyc
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 8:38 pm | Permalink

                I don’t know exactly what Trump said to that other idiot (nor do I care to), but I don’t see a problem with that photo. To me it looks like a loving father and daughter. If he hadn’t said whatever he said to Stern, would your opinion of the photo change?

              • Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:06 am | Permalink

                Sure. if things were different they’d be different. Trump has said a lot slimy things and words matter.

              • Ken Kukec
                Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:23 pm | Permalink

                If it weren’t for the vulgar badinage with Stern, and the comment about dating his own daughter, and the other gross stuff Trump has said and done with underage girls and Miss Teen USA contestants, the pic wouldn’t be as bad, but I’d still find it kinda squicky — same way I find those father-daughter Purity Balls are kinda squicky.

        • Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:13 pm | Permalink

          Yeah, that comment by bee was vile, too, but I decided not to write about that, as I didn’t want to get into the Donald’s creepiness in this post.

          • BJ
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:15 pm | Permalink

            I don’t think you’d have to talk about Donald at all. Bee directed her remark at Ivanka, and she’s telling Ivanka to walk up to her own father and try to to appeal sexually to him so she can influence him politically. It’s pretty horrific, and it rolls a whole bunch of things that Democrats/the left normally would be apoplectic about.

      • Dale Pickard
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:59 pm | Permalink

        Well, no question Sam Bee should have chosen better words, if for no other reason than that the words she did choose only served to ignite indignant and sometimes selective outrage of critics. I spend more time than is healthy for me listening to the right wing noise machine. Hillary, Obama, Pelosi have been called far, far worse names for no purpose other than to ridicule and demonize. Sam Bee was trying to make a legitimate point which unfortunately was lost with her tone deaf words. Certainly she could and should have made the same point using less inflammatory language but she apologized.
        It’s not that I don’t like Ivanka’s politics – what I don’t like is her and her family’s cruel, mean spirited, criminal behavior. I think this should be the focus of our outrage, not Sam Bee.
        Trump, as President, suggested that she lose her job, which is a clear violation of her 1st amendment rights which we seem to be failing to honor.

  8. ploubere
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:30 pm | Permalink

    Not a Bee fan either, and I don’t think crude insults are funny, but she has on occasion done some good. Her segment on the history of religious right abortion politics is accurate and informative, in the manner of John Oliver.

  9. Mark R.
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:37 pm | Permalink

    Comedy uses shock value to get attention. This is all that is…it’s a bit. And for what it’s worth, the crowd roared with laughter. And they heard the real thing, everyone else has just heard the bleeped version. I’m not saying it was funny or useful, but Ivanka is the “Adviser to the President”, she’s not just an out-of-sight, innocuous daughter like Obama’s kids or W’s. Plus, if she didn’t say the word ‘cunt’ but said something like a ‘feckless twit’ no one would be talking about it. Everyone is talking about it: mission accomplished.

    I don’t think she should have apologized either. She should have played the comedian card and left it at that.

    • Randy Bessinger
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:50 pm | Permalink

      Rudy, Sarah, and Donald would still talk about the liberal media going after his “kids”.

    • Heather Hastie
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:56 pm | Permalink

      I think it would have been just as effective if she used a different word.

      • Merilee
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

        “Feckless twit” would have worked just as well.

        • Mark R.
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 8:12 pm | Permalink

          Perhaps, but I don’t think any of us would be writing on this topic had she left it at “twit”. The right would still be outraged, but I doubt Jerry would have posted about it. So again, if she wanted to get attention, mission accomplished.

    • BJ
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

      Would you have the same reaction if it was Roseanne who used the exact same words about Malia Obama?

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

        Malia is a child (or was when Obama was in office) and not a member of the administration. Last but not least, Barack Obama has a much better image with respect women than Trump. Not the same at all.

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:04 pm | Permalink

        Not quite the same thing. Malia was a minor, held no official White House title, and took no public positions on matters of policy.

        But now that you’ve raised it, I recall the right-wing memes about “Moo-chelle” and her resemblance to some type of simian. And Rushbo referred to a teen-aged Chelsea Clinton as “the White House dog.”

        Not that I’m holdin’ any grudges. 🙂

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted June 3, 2018 at 10:06 am | Permalink

          I was mistaken about Limbaugh comparing Chelsea to the White House dog when she was a teenager; she was only 12.

      • Mark R.
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 8:07 pm | Permalink

        Apples/Oranges…what Paul and Ken said.

  10. Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:44 pm | Permalink

    I’m glad I’m not the only “progressive” that isn’t a McBee fan. I agree that it’s all in the delivery…and I just don’t care for hers. While I love sarcasm and a biting sense of humor, I’m not into obnoxiously loud and vulgar. (The main reason I don’t care for Roseanne either)

    • freiner
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:09 pm | Permalink

      “Hear, here” (I’m not sure sure which of these forms is right in this phrase, so I’ll use both.) I like dagger-like wit to be sharp and dry, not rough and coarse. Not only do I find it funnier, but it cuts more deeply.

      • Michael Fisher
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:41 pm | Permalink

        It’s “Hear, hear” – a shortened form of “hear him, here him” used originally in the English parliament instead of clapping, whistling etc which were regarded as impolite in that venue [the Commons & the Lords]. “Hear him, hear him” gets the message of approval across, but doesn’t add as much time to a speech as flapping the arms about.

        SJWs could learn from this & give up on that weird, finger snapping they love so much. See – The University of Michigan Men’s Glee Club who seem to finger snap possibly because you can finger snap & hold beer at the same time – the ONLY acceptable reason for the snap instead of the clap! [so to speak – you’ll have to look up “the clap” Freiner 🙂 ]

        • freiner
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:49 pm | Permalink

          Hey, that makes sense (or is it “cents,” or “scents”?). As for looking up “the clap” — I’m not going anywhere near that.

          • Michael Fisher
            Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:13 pm | Permalink

            Freiner, you should watch Henning Wehn on YT – a German comedian who has made his career in Britain playing off the German stereotypes. You will like him.

            THAT’S AN ORDER!

            • freiner
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:24 pm | Permalink

              JAWOHL!! In fact I just watched a clip. Sehr gut — and I really mean that. Thanks for the suggestion.
              Now I have another favorite German standup comic working in English to put alongside, uh, er, … wait, wait … um …

  11. David Evans
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 12:58 pm | Permalink

    Huffpost’s “whataboutery” comes after Trump tweeted “Why aren’t they firing no talent Samantha Bee for the horrible language used on her low ratings show?” I think that makes it fair comment.

  12. Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:00 pm | Permalink

    Sometimes I fear Trump is managing to pull the whole country down to his level.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:06 pm | Permalink

      It is hard not to be pulled down. We can’t ignore him like we could a regular loud-mouthed fool. On the other hand, we can’t respond to him without getting ourselves muddy in the process. I can’t wait for it to end but fear that it won’t.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:14 pm | Permalink

      It’s just making excuses to claim Trump is pulling people down to his level. This kind of thing began long before Trump and it isn’t exclusive to the USA. Graham Linehan has referred to Theresa May as a cunt several times, as has Frankie Boyle.

      Also, Bee’s attack on Ivanka not only picks up on the insinuations about incest the Left are keen on promoting but implies that Ivanka is complicit in it:

      Put on something tight and low-cut and tell your father to fuckin’ stop it.

      That’s actually a great deal sicker than calling her a cunt.

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

        Actually, Trump himself seems to avoid expletives. In fact the lowering of levels is better illustrated by Bee’s incest insinuation. Trump has said things about his own daughter that suggest that Bee’s ploy might even work. IMHO, she spoiled a nicely targeted joke by adding the expletive.

        • Ken Kukec
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 10:16 pm | Permalink

          You mean this guy>

    • Randy Bessinger
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:16 pm | Permalink

      I sometimes wonder how long this frenzy can go on. I think that if Trump wasn’t front and center in the news everyday, he would not be interested in being President. Trump’s ego seems to be infinite.

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:16 pm | Permalink

      Trump’s done his part to coarsen public discourse. It’s merely one of the many American norms and institutions he’s in the process of dismantling.

  13. Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:03 pm | Permalink

    With the exception of Margaret Thatcher’s family, the British press generally lays off the families of our PMs.

    Without Googling, how many Brits even know the name of Theresa May’s husband or if they have kids?

    Politicians generally have to hire a hitman to kill their gay lover or abuse orphans before the press take an interest in their personal lives, and even that tends to be years after the fact.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:10 pm | Permalink

      I think we do a good job of laying off the family here in the US too. This doesn’t apply to Trump’s grown kids as he’s given them positions in his administration. I suspect Trump doesn’t really listen to them but they don’t deserve special treatment from the rest of us.

    • Barney
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:59 pm | Permalink

      That’s irrelevant; Ivanka has a position in Trump’s administration, as does her husband, and thus is a proper target for criticism.

  14. Mark Cagnetta
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:21 pm | Permalink

    Lest we forget, Ivanka is an advisor to the President. She may not make immigration policy, but she can whisper in the moron’s ear the separating children from their parents is wrong. Instead, she flies around the world, most likely on the taxpayer dime, reeling in trademarks for her companies. That would, indeed, make her “feckless.” Also, didn’t you hear what Jefferson B. Sessions said? Separating children from their parents is ongoing as far as I can tell. SB1070 was passed in AZ but some of it was deemed unconsitutional. It was written by Alec (with much influence by Kris Kobach) at the behest of the private prison lobby. The ultimate plan was for three private prisons to be built: one for children, one for female adults, and one for adult males. Kobach now advices Trump. You see, “see you next Tuesday” may be too strong or too offensive a word, but in Australia it would be a fitting adjective for all who disgrace our White House.

    • Mark Cagnetta
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

      Sorry, “that” not, “the.”

      • Mark Cagnetta
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:49 pm | Permalink

        Advises, not advices. My apologies, again!

  15. Randall Schenck
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:22 pm | Permalink

    I do not condemn or even comment on what people do or say on Twitter or face book. It does not interest me and I simply do not take part. However, Huffpost is a large part of the problem because all they really are is more noise, more twitter. There is nothing about them that says journalism and that just makes them another extreme joke. If they really wanted to cover the story that means anything they would cover the immigration story. The actual journalism I have read shows the kids are being separated from their parents at the boarder. This did not just start it has always been part of the process. What changed is at least partly due to the way the people are handled. Before Trump it generally included that an adult in the family unit would be given a free pass. That way there was not separation. However, now under Trump process, all are prosecuted the same. Therefore, the kids are separated at much higher rates and go to HHS. There is much more to this and much that should be done to fix it all but who cares. It is much more fun to make noise on twitter and face book or be the obnoxious HUFFPOST.

  16. Leigh
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 1:24 pm | Permalink

    Listening to Sessions describe the Trump administrations policy of removing children from parents seeking asylum — a deliberately cruel action justified as a deterrent — fills me with disgust. I can understand Bee’s rant and I feel as she does. Don’t post a picture of yourself holding your child without also protesting your father’s insanity. Ivanka, unlike the rest of us, has the opportunity to directly influence public policy. Has she? Has she done anything to protect families from being disrupted? Has she apologized for being thoughtless? If she has, then I would agree she doesn’t deserve criticism. If she has not, she deserves all the contempt heaped upon her.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:18 pm | Permalink

      By all means, if you think she has influence, ask her to use it. And yes, Sessions’s comment was uber-offensive. But we can criticize policy without calling a woman a “cunt”. Or do you think that’s necessary and helpful?

      Remember, Republicans feel just as harshly toward many of us, but we wouldn’t put up with them calling Leftist women “cunts.”

      It seems to me that this is of a piece with the civility I try to promote here. By all means go after Ivanka’s policy if you think she shares it and has influence with the Donald. But name calling, especially the vile kind that demeans women, isn’t the way I like to do it.

      • yazikus
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 10:04 pm | Permalink

        Calling her a cunt was unnecessary and unhelpful, and I do like Bee. She could have used another word (without slang for genitalia) to accomplish the same point. It is yet another sad case of, “Not helping!” on the left.
        Ivanka is worthy of harsh criticism, as many others have pointed out, as a member of the administration and with close ties to the president.
        Feckless Robber Baron (or Baroness, if we must) would have been more appropriate.

    • Randall Schenck
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:25 pm | Permalink

      When a person asks for asylum removal is automatic. And remember, all coming in are not asking for asylum. But when they do, it means a long holding time, getting the lawyer filing papers, and all the rest. The children or child must be removed in this case. And this is also where the problems increase because they do not have enough facilities to house and take care of the kids. They also have time limits. It is a mess for sure but it was not caused by Trump. It is not that simple.

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

        Why “must” children be removed in the seeking of asylum? You also seem to imply that the Trump administration didn’t start this practice. I’ve also heard others say this but I wonder if it is really true.

        • Randall Schenck
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:04 pm | Permalink

          It is true and you can look it up. Google still working I believe. You can actually read about the entire procedure on this by Homeland Security and ICE. It takes time, lots of time when you ask for asylum. You show up with one or more kids you are going to be separated. They do not have a group of holiday inns at the boarder to house people for months at a time while the bureaucracy does it’s slow motion dance. The Trump administration did not start this thing. They only changed procedures as I said earlier and began strictly following regulation. Why do you think the congress has been failing to pass comprehensive immigration policy for years. It is a mess.

          Recommend that instead of questioning what I am saying you go do some research. You cannot learn what you need by simply following Twitter or face book.

          • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:16 pm | Permalink

            Actually, the latest issue of the Economist arrived today and had an article about it. I find them to value truth and they made the case that this is a Jeff Sessions’ invention. Here’s an NPR fact-check article that says:

            “The president implied that children were being separated from their parents at the border because of a law enacted by Democrats. Actually, the policy in question was enacted by his own administration.”

            https://www.npr.org/2018/05/29/615211215/fact-check-are-democrats-responsible-for-dhs-separating-children-from-their-pare

            Same from Politico: https://www.politico.com/newsletters/morning-shift/2018/05/29/trump-attempts-jujutsu-on-child-separation-235804

            Of course, all of these publications may have the story wrong but that isn’t likely.

            • Randall Schenck
              Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:48 pm | Permalink

              I can only tell you, if you can find some of the information that you have here, then read it. I stand by what I have said. Pay particular attention to the second article you are referring from Politico. Trump is full of crap saying the Democrats put this in place. It was already in place going back to Bush as the article says. What sessions did was start strictly following the laws that are there. Obama did not. You seem to say that this shows Sessions or Trump created the laws allowing them to do this. That is flat wrong. When you get arrested or detained and go to jail – do your children go with you. I think not. You probably have relatives or someone to take the kids. If you have nobody guess what – the state takes them while you are away. Think about it.

              • Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:04 am | Permalink

                It really doesn’t matter who created the rule. Most of those kind of rules are subject to interpretation and they have a lot of discretion as to when and how they are applied. I’ve seen quite a few reports that say they separate the children from the adults but do little to bring them back together again. That sounds bad to me. Trump and Sessions could easily change the policy. If there’s some reason they can’t or that the press has the wrong idea, they could easily explain. Instead we have Sessions doubling down on their treatment by saying that it is on purpose. Thus giving tacit acknowledgement that, yes, they are separating parents and children by design.

  17. Merilee
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 2:34 pm | Permalink

    I have never liked Samantha Bee, probably least of all of the Daily Show “correspondents”, past or present. Her husband Jason Jones was pretty good. Bee is too in-your-face mugging and crude, kinda like Roseanne, as someone else pointed out. I think that Roseanne’s recent offence was worse than Samantha’s, but still find Bee’s a cheap and vulgar shot. I wish Jessica Williams would come back.

    • Michael Fisher
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      My objection to Bee is ‘her’ [she doesn’t write much of it] material doesn’t get a chance to breathe – she has one gear only & it’s somewhat frantic. Hurts my ears! American/Canadian comedy on TV is dead anyway as it’s all written by a committee now so all she has to do is deliver it – and she can’t.

      She started out in an all female quartet comedy troupe & then moved to TV too soon – before learning all the other gears. She’s boring, she’s stopped learning her trade & all she does is lazy bouncing of a ball off the wall of current hot topics. She’s shite.

      The Brits Caroline Aherne & Linda Smith were both naturally funny women with superb timing & quick brains. Worth a look on YouTube if you have the time.

  18. Joseph Kosiner
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:16 pm | Permalink

    Has everyone forgotten
    Ted Nugent calling Hillary Clinton a cunt during the campaign and then being invited to the White House, or all the t-shirts at Trump rallies referring to Hillary as a cunt? The right had no problem with any of that. It is faux outrage on the right and the left, as usual, does nothing about it. Yes, Sam Bee was being crude and apologized for it.

    • Randy Bessinger
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:03 pm | Permalink

      Ah, yes, Ted. Got a visit from the Secret Service after a threat to Obama as I recall.

      • Randy Bessinger
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:18 pm | Permalink

        That would be the Deep State Secret Service, of course.

    • BJ
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:23 pm | Permalink

      This is a false equivalence and misses the point Jerry and others are making. First, Ted Nugent is not a widely regarded TV personality, and a handful of regular Trump supporters are even less relevant. Second, this is about double standards on the Left. We know the Right has double standards as well. Many of us wish the Left would be better than that, as Jerry said in this very post.

      • Randy Bessinger
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:30 pm | Permalink

        I think you underestimate how much Trump supporters hate the Clintons and the Obamas. It is alot! I know a fair amount of them and they hated them way before Trump even announced his candidacy. It is very personal.

        • Posted June 3, 2018 at 9:07 am | Permalink

          Nugent is not widely known, but he sure is among the GOP. He’s their unchained pit bull and they forgive anything/everything (draft dodging) about him, *because* he’s “one of theirs.”

    • Posted June 3, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      Nugent was the *first* political celebrity (as far as I can recall) to use the c-word- gleefully, and unrepentantly against the left’s HRC.

      Not that it makes any difference now, as both sides now participate in the “your side said it first” a the race-to-the-bottom blame game of uncivil discourse.

  19. Gabrielle
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:20 pm | Permalink

    I believe Samantha Bee did step over a line calling Ivanka a cunt, but just over it. As others above have said, Ivanka is a close adviser to her father, which in my view opens her up to criticism. And on late night TV, the criticism isn’t going to be of the genteel, polite kind.
    When Ivanka was first named as an adviser and given an office in the White House, one of the items in Ivanka’s ‘portfolio’ was for her to champion paid maternity leave, and to focus on other issues important to working women. There’s been precious little of any of this happening. I think this is what was behind Bee’s remark in her monologue saying “..from one working mother (Bee) to another (Ivanka)”.
    And for a personal note – If another woman called me a cunt, I’d be furious, and then I’d answer back with a string of obscenities, probably a good 5 minutes worth.

    • Joseph Kosiner
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 3:23 pm | Permalink

      Well said.

  20. Posted June 2, 2018 at 4:44 pm | Permalink

    Maybe read this article – which rather lays the real issue on the line…
    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/06/01/ivankas-full-frontal/
    Can anybody actually advise the Donald?

    • Merilee
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

      No, no one can advise The Donald, as he already knows it all. He in unadviseable as well as inadviseable:-(. The writer you linked to needs to brush up on his spelling/grammar, e.g. alter for altar…

    • nicky
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:16 pm | Permalink

      I guess his Russian bosses can.

  21. Max Blancke
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:21 pm | Permalink

    All the “resistance” is starting to seem sort of frantic and pointless.
    Trump is certainly not my first choice either, but nothing he has actually done justifies all the panic and outrage.
    US border policies are not terribly different than they were in the past. But any policy or statement by the current administration has to be “resisted”, even if it is no different than Obama or Clinton policies.
    I think a case can be made that this is not about the actual policies, but is instead just leftover simmering rage that the cool kids did not sweep into power during the last election.

    The image that was posted elicits so much rage because it shows Ivanka as a happy person, who is also reasonably attractive and apparently intelligent. In the intersectionality alternative universe, such people should always be unhappy, preferably eternally penitent.

    • Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:30 pm | Permalink

      No way. As far as I’m concerned, Trump’s constant lying to the American people alone disqualifies him from being a president worthy of any respect at all. And before you remind everyone that all politicians lie, not like Trump. Generally when politicians do lie and get caught out, they apologize or at least feel bad about it or stop using the lie. With Trump virtually every single statement contains a substantial lie and he’s really never apologized to anyone. Instead, he trashes those that call out his lies and repeats them more frequently.

      • Merilee
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:50 pm | Permalink

        +1

      • Ken Kukec
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

        Exactly. He’s also done his best to dismantle Obamacare, which will leave millions of Americans without health insurance, enacted a fat-cat tax-cut which will add $1.5 trillion to the national debt, and is mongering war with Iran. Not to mention gutted regulations that protect the environment, public health, and worker safety.

      • Max Blancke
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

        “If you like your health care plan, you can keep it”

        “We don’t have a domestic spying program”

        “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised”

        “I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”

        “We did not, I repeat, did not trade weapons or anything else [to Iran] for hostages, nor will we.”

        “I have previously stated, and I repeat now, that the United States plans no military intervention in Cuba.”

        “I have said this before, but I shall say it again and again and again: Your boys are not going to be sent into any foreign wars”

        “I am not a crook.”

        “Read my lips. No new taxes.”

        • nicky
          Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:20 pm | Permalink

          Mr Rooseveldt’s was no lie. After Pearl Harbour it was no foreign war anymore.

        • Posted June 3, 2018 at 12:13 am | Permalink

          Good list. Some of these are really lies but most are simply promises that later they changed their mind on. While I am all for holding their toes to the fire on what they say, they all have the right to change their minds. In fact, we generally want them to have that ability. You also had to cover a lot of presidents. All in all, your list is not at all convincing. Trump lies with practically every statement. Doesn’t the Washington Post have him at over 3000 lies?

          • Max Blancke
            Posted June 3, 2018 at 2:52 pm | Permalink

            True, and I am not a Trump fan. I don’t want to find myself in a position of having to defend him, except in the sense that I think people are overreacting.
            The lies about Iraq and their threat to the world led to thousands of American deaths. It cost me a couple of years of my life, and stuck me with the vivid memory of what it looks like when a friend bleeds out almost instantly from a round to the head.
            Roosevelt rounded up well over 100K loyal American citizens and put them in concentration camps, despite the assessment of a majority of US intelligence services and the State Dept. that “We do not believe that they would be any more disloyal than any other racial group in the United States with whom we went to war.”
            How about Johnson, McNamara and the Gulf of Tonkin?
            Andrew Jackson consistently spun the idea that confiscation of Indian lands was done primarily for the good of the tribes. “The experience of every year adds to the conviction that emigration, and that alone, can preserve from destruction the remnant of the tribes yet living amongst us.”

            Trump is a bloviating NY real estate guy. He talks and writes like one. That is unfortunate.
            I had one conversation before the election with someone who took it as fact that Trump is openly antisemitic. Many people believe this because it just keeps getting repeated. But nobody could point me to any verifiable antisemitic remarks or actions attributable to him.
            Sure he exaggerates the size of crowds and whether things are “huge”, or if some people are “Bad Hombres”. I have not heard anything he has said or done with the magnitude of Iraqi WMDs or Pallets of cash to the IRGC.
            Much of the dialog seems to be that Trump is an exceptionally corrupt and dangerous president, to the point that ordinary Americans should join the “resistance”, and that normal rules of decorum can be cast aside in this national emergency. I just don’t see it.

            • Posted June 3, 2018 at 3:26 pm | Permalink

              I can’t disagree with your list of bad acts by presidents. I think the difference is that those presidents were all trying to do right by the country. I don’t believe that’s the case with Trump. When what is good for the country runs up against what is good for Trump, inc. the tie will go to the latter.

              I think it is the undermining of our political institutions, the rule of law, and the ascendancy of facts over fiction. Not sure about the “rules of decorum” but it is Trump that has cast them aside first and foremost.

              As far as the idea that Trump hasn’t done anything really catastrophic yet, I guess you are right. Of course, getting us out of the Paris Climate Accords and the Iran Agreement, bad trade policies, and the trashing of environmental protections are all acts whose effects will take years to assess. Many didn’t realize how futile and mismanaged the Iraq War was until years later. As you know, most politicians were for it just before it started and now most agree it was a bad idea.

  22. KD33
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 5:33 pm | Permalink

    After reading this and skimming the comments, my view is:

    – Ivanka’s picture was pretty stupid and tone-deaf in the context of the news and her father’s horrible policies. They really are separating kids from parents, whether 1500 kids were “lost” or not.

    – I agree with Bee’s criticism. But “feckless cunt” was over the top. Agree with most people here, let’s not stoop to this.

    – Rosanne Barr’s transgression was a lot worse than Bee’s.

    – I don’t give a rat’s ass about HuffPo, and don’t care to read it, or about it. Why bother beating the same dead horse? It’s wasted effort.

  23. shelleywatsonburch
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

    I could not agree more with everything you said about this. It’s a sad, desperate day when the left goes after the president’s daughter for doing nothing more than posting a picture with her child. Would this happen to Chelsea Clinton? Nope. Regardless of her father’s policies, his absurd presidency, this is not a conversation worth having. It makes the left look silly.

  24. Ken Kukec
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:35 pm | Permalink

    I haven’t seen Sam Bee’s show for the last season, probably two. I used to watch her when she was a correspondent on Jon Stewart’s show and in the first season of her own, and back then I liked her. A lot.

    As for Ivanka, it was wrong for Sam Bee to call her a “cunt,” but The Vankster certainly fits the bill as “feckless.” She followed her daddy to DC, and she’s got an office in the West Wing and an official title (“Advisor to the President”). She supposedly has her father’s ear, and rumor had it (most of it spread by her and her husband) that she was a New York sophisto with quasi-liberal leanings who would act as a moderating influence on the Donald. From all available evidence, she she’s accomplished diddly-squat. Far as I’m concerned, she and Jared can go screw (to use a five-letter four-letter word).

  25. Rich Sanderson
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:41 pm | Permalink

    Lots of hypocrisy abound, as per usual.

    First, I notice the New Racists and regressives, such as Peter “Humanisticus” Ferguson, are all very quiet about this, even though they go berserk when others throw the term “cunt” at a woman. Lol.

    Aaaaannndddd, the alt right are foaming at the mouth with outrage. Yes, the same alt right who kept on calling Hillary a “cunt”.

    Anyway, it is now obvious comedians have to frequently censor themselves, or backtrack, more than any time in the, say, past 30-40 years? Who would have thought the regressive left would have taken over the mantle of policing naughty words and language?

    Oh, and if it isn’t bleedin’ obvious already – many of these SJW comedians simply aren’t funny.

    • infiniteimprobabilit
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:10 pm | Permalink

      Your penultimate paragraph – I couldn’t agree with you more. How long before John Oliver or Ricky Gervais uses the wrong word and gets tarred and feathered for it?

      To my mind this hysterical BS about using ‘bad words’ is far more widespread, insidious and menacing than the occasional brouhaha over ‘hate speech’. The Thought Police have never been more zealous. In a spirit of pure reactionism, may I link to Jonathan Pie’s rant over the Nazi pug dog –

      (22 ‘f’s’, 3 ‘c’s’)
      ‘It’s a fuckin’ joke, ya cunts!’

      Re the last para – ‘many of these SJW comedians simply aren’t funny’ – I wholeheartedly agree. It seems ‘SJW’ and ‘humour’ may be mutually exclusive. But I wouldn’t sentence SJW comedians to being pilloried – just to not being laughed at.

      cr

      • infiniteimprobabilit
        Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:11 pm | Permalink

        Oops, sorry – didn’t mean to imbed. (About one time in 20 I forget to snip the link when inserting it).

        cr

  26. eric
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 6:44 pm | Permalink

    This whole incident shows just how twisted out of shape our government is: we are actually calling for the President’s daughter to seek to influence his presidential policy options.

    Just think about that for a moment. Even just four years ago, both parties would have agreed that that’s a horrible thing to want. She’s not elected. She has no government experience. And we should generally abhor nepotism or inherited governmental power. But now, because of Trump (a) putting his family into positions of power and most of the US tacitly accepting that outcome, and (b) propagating horribly cruel immigration policies, we have liberals getting angry at the President’s daughter for not influencing him enough.

    Yes, Trump’s policies of separating immigrant children from their mothers is horrific. Yes, Ivanka as a mother of young children should be sensitive to that, and in a just world would tell her father it’s a horrible policy. Yes, Samantha Bee’s comment used unnecessarily and insulting sexist language. All that is true. But we should not be calling for a President’s daughter try to gain more policy power in the White House. We should calling for her to have none, and we sohuld be laying the blame for the President’s horrific immigration policies on him, his cabinet, and the Representatives that could do something about it, but don’t.

    The President’s daughter should be off limits, because she should be out of politics.

    • Joseph Kosiner
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:18 pm | Permalink

      She has a West Wing office and is a government employee. She is an adviser to the President of the United States. As First Daughter she is off limits…but as his adviser she is not.

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:30 pm | Permalink

      “… we are actually calling for the President’s daughter to seek to influence his presidential policy options.”

      That’s what happens when the president’s adult daughter goes to Washington, gets a top-secret security clearance, an office in the West Wing, and accepts the official title “Advisor to the President.”

      Donald Trump put her in the cross-hairs, no one else. White House staff positions, unlike the president’s cabinet and the federal bureaucracy, are exempt from federal nepotism laws and require no congressional confirmation. That’s why Trump put her (and her lunkhead husband) there.

      • Posted June 2, 2018 at 11:59 pm | Permalink

        Of course Ivanka and Jared are adults so they really put themselves in the crosshairs. Of course, they can’t disown dear old dad but I’m guessing they could easily have not taken jobs in the white house.

  27. Posted June 2, 2018 at 7:49 pm | Permalink

    I’m not much of a fan of Bee’s comedy, but I don’t agree that she erred here. There is a meaningful difference between calling someone a “cunt” in a serious context (e.g. face-to-face, online, during an interview, in writing), and calling someone a “cunt” as part of a comedy bit. Yes, much good comedy is often semi-serious, but the intention is still to exaggerate, provoke, shock, etc. I didn’t find Bee’s bit funny, but comedy is a notoriously personal affair.

  28. infiniteimprobabilit
    Posted June 2, 2018 at 8:42 pm | Permalink

    Normally I’d say ‘lay off Ivanka Trump’. She’s not responsible for who her father is. But as has been noted, she’s put herself in that position (or agreed to be put in that position).

    As for Bee’s choice of words, so frickin’ what? Does the First Amendment apply any longer or what?

    cr

  29. Posted June 2, 2018 at 9:41 pm | Permalink

    Another day in the “office”, two “extremes” going at it. The games’ of attrition and zero plus by any means.
    Trump’s of the world and anti trumps are not right or wrong in the wider scheme, just obstacles to progress.
    Define progress?
    Has anything changed after this fracas for the betterment and understanding of human affairs, bet your Prof(E) boots it hasn’t, why? point scoring is nowhere IMO and i would like to be surprised.
    Till the next time… something moves, usually sideways and with a thud, but WE are watching a circus.

  30. nicky
    Posted June 3, 2018 at 1:09 am | Permalink

    I fully agree with the OP. It is rude and uncalled for, and not funny.
    The fact that Ms Clinton has been called a ‘cunt’ is pure whataboutism, something we try to avoid in civilised discourse.

  31. Bruce Gorton
    Posted June 3, 2018 at 4:31 am | Permalink

    I look at this, and I think: Okay imagine it was Barrack Obama, while president, hugging his daughter, and the right had a similar reaction.

    I think we’d be just a wee bit disgusted with them.

    There is a bullying edge to this. Sure every time Trump talks about his daughter, banjo music starts playing, but you can’t really blame her for that.

    If we’re going to take someone showing affection for their kids as a reason to attack them, well, isn’t this a bit too far in itself, no matter what the person’s position is?

    I think the policy being put forward by the Trump administration is despicable, but this sort of thing doesn’t seem to me to generate the kind of empathy one needs to put a stop to it.

    • Ken Kukec
      Posted June 3, 2018 at 9:36 am | Permalink

      “If we’re going to take someone showing affection for their kids as a reason to attack them”?

      Donald Trump dragged his daughter on Howard Stern’s radio show where the two talked about what a “piece of ass” she was. He’s also talked about how, if she weren’t his daughter, he’d probably be dating her. And he’s made outré comments to girls as young as 10 that he’d be dating them in a few years. And he’s bragged about barging into the dressing room at the Miss Teen USA show to ogle contestants in dishabille. And there’s the matter of the squicky pic with Ivanka I posted above in #7.

      Can you imagine what the right-wing media would’ve done to Obama for any of these things?

      • Posted June 3, 2018 at 2:05 pm | Permalink

        If it can be proven- which it can- that the President said/did anything vulgar, creepy or factually wrong there is always an excuse. Republican simply ignore what is inconvenient. It’s not like that they care what “the left” thinks anyway.

    • Posted June 3, 2018 at 11:24 am | Permalink

      I would agree with this but Trump has enabled these attacks with his speech. When we attack pictures of him with his daughter, this is not at all based solely on a picture. In fact, the pictures themselves show nothing. They are innocent pictures. They are just a trigger for jokes supported completely by what Trump says.

  32. ThyroidPlanet
    Posted June 3, 2018 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Is it “fine” to call someone a … what she said?

    Well, I’d ask if there’s a defensible position for calling someone a … FC. yes, if they are (1) feckless (sorta means incompetent) and (2) a … rude jerk, I guess.

    So maybe Sam Bee would qualify.

    Do I approve of the overt messages with this fracas? The rudeness coupled to some other tweet? No.

    • ThyroidPlanet
      Posted June 3, 2018 at 7:00 am | Permalink

      …Because it is a piece of shock comedy – which is fine – that seems to be asking to be taken seriously, and also seems to be saying that loving your children even though there are children suffering elsewhere in the world is not ok …. and now im getting confused.

    • ThyroidPlanet
      Posted June 3, 2018 at 7:10 am | Permalink

      Is it uncivil?

      Absolutely.

  33. SnowyOwl
    Posted June 3, 2018 at 8:01 am | Permalink

    “Such a c***.”
    — Trump on acting AG Sally Yates

    “That c***.”
    — Trump on Philadelphia Inquirer reporter Jennifer Lin

  34. Randy Bessinger
    Posted June 3, 2018 at 9:05 am | Permalink

    After reading Jerry’s post today, I want to make clear that I think the same standards should be apllied to both left and right. I think Bee was wrong to attack Ivanka the way she did and using the c word was terrible. That said, I am beginning to tire of even identity politics as labeled right and left.


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