Here: have a photo of our atheist President pretending to pray to God—in the Oval Office. Worse, as CNN reports:
President Donald Trump, who has remained out of public view since returning from Europe late Saturday, welcomed evangelical leaders into the Oval Office on Monday for a prayer session.
Photos posted by some of the invitees show the group surrounding Trump and laying their hands on his shoulders as his head is bent in prayer. The picture was posted by Johnnie Moore, a former senior vice president at Liberty University, a large evangelical university in Virginia. It also showed Vice President Mike Pence, with his eyes shut, participating in the Oval Office prayer session.. . . Evangelicals, like Moore, believe deeply about praying for the President. And the faith leader said that the group — after a “lighthearted visit among friends” — ended the meeting in prayer.
Such an honor to pray within the Oval Office for @POTUS & @VP . pic.twitter.com/JrDOSJyFeN
— Rev. Johnnie Moore ن (@JohnnieM) July 12, 2017
The man doesn’t believe in God, and has no history of religiosity. He sees his god when he looks in the mirror, and worships at Our Lady of Perpetual Narcissism.
h/t: Simon
Maybe Pence has made him born again. On the other hand, he is so deep in shit right now he will believe anything.
This is what our country is now run on?
Get those Mars missions up, asap.
I would guess many, if not most, of the US presidents (as well as world leaders from nearly every other country) have done this throughout history.
And by “this,” I mean praying in the Oval Office (or equivalent for other countries). The only President we know of who thought that his prayer gave him a “special relationship” with his god that helped him make decisions is Dubya.
Maybe Christianity should be revised to state that God is evil and humans should, with their free will, fight their way out of this mess 🙂
What Free Will ?
Abraham Lincoln did not stoop to this sort of hypocrisy (so far as is known) in any of his several White House meetings with (Protestant) clerics during the Civil War. And even his public statements that mentioned god (never Jesus or christ) were in the form of printed proclamations, often written by his staff–-such as the one for a national ‘day of thanksgiving.’
So far was he from ‘god’s-on-our-side’ rhetoric that he struggled intellectually to determine just what the will of the traditional Judaeo-Christian ‘god-the-father’ might be for the dubious outcome of the conflict. Of course even his brilliant mind could not figure this out, since it was unknowable, while thousands of preachers and pundits and politicians across the Union thought it was obvious. C.f. the ‘Bad Old Hymn of the Republic.’
I wonder if JFK did? Of course he famously put his Catholicism on the shelf when he was campaigning. (Those were the good old days!)
I dunno, but Jack was heard to moan “Oh, Gawd” while with Fiddle & Faddle in the White House pool. 🙂
https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=oShTJ90fC34
If JFK prayed and god is real, I guess that’s how he ended up with his presidential pen in Marilyn Monroe’s oval office 😛
I assume you & Ken will be here all week, right? 😀
tip your waitress, and please, try the veal!
Dear President Orange Haired Mystic Moron,
If this doesn’t work, the only thing left is for you to bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.
And may I also add, good freakin’ riddance.
If there was an omnibenevolent god there wouldn’t be a Trump.
So, trickster god it must be.
Got exorcism?
If you don’t pay your exorcists you are likely to be repossessed. Trump is doomed.
Hysterical. All these serious squinty faced men have no idea the only thing this man is thinking about is how to get a supermodel naked on his desk.
🙂
(Though with his admitted germophobia, he might be yearning for shower-time.)
Judging by one of the hands, there’s at least one female there.
But of course, as always with church leaders, we can pretty safely assume most if not all will be men. (What drives me crazy is that most of their parishioners will be women!)
For all his big talk and braggadocio, I doubt Donald Trump derives much pleasure from physical intimacy with women. Given his Nixonian awkwardness with public touching, and his obvious revulsion at women’s bodily functions (eg, Megan and Mika’s bleeding; Hillary’s taking a debate potty break), I can’t imagine the Donald spends much time venerating at the Holy-of-Holies.
Poor Melania; I hope she’s taken a lover.
Sounds likely to me.
Dunno if I feel so sorry for Melania, though…she must’ve known what she was getting into…
(Trying my damnedest not to add, “and [reverse of last clause]…”)
This, Ms Diane G, is m’most favored fantasy:
http://37.media.tumblr.com/84ac2b63899186d9659fca636416369d/tumblr_n722v4jIgL1rzlzxqo1_1280.jpg
Sadly and based upon all evidence now
available, I shall within my lifetime .not.
realize my so longed – for fantasy.
Blue
Oh, if only!
🙂
We know that Trump is a scum bucket. What is telling about this whole thing is how readily these so-called religious leaders go along with this sham. Disgraceful.
‘Disgraceful’ is precisely the word! In the terms of their own theology, evangelicals rely on the abundance of ‘free grace’ available through Jesus to anyone who seeks it, however black her heart beforetime. Sincere in her desire to repent and be saved, she gets washed in the lamb’s blood, is redeemed, and sent on her way to live a mo’betta life.
BUT. One can do this only so many times before backsliding is eternally fatal, resulting in a permanent loss of grace. The clerics praying with/for Trump are in fact involved in satan worship. And at some deep level they must know it. They made their compact with this devil by supporting him–campaigning for him from the pulpit, thereby legally forfeiting their tax exemptions as institutions–voting for him, and now continuing to go to hell with him, the train there ever-accelerating.
All for the sake of some fantasy of a ‘christian nation’ and the right/power to rule over women and their bodies.
“The man doesn’t believe in God…”
This is clearly a definitive statement, but I can’t find any evidence that it’s necessarily true. If it’s not, this is no different than any of our many other presidents doing the same thing in the Oval Office (however much we may personally dislike it).
Please give some evidence that this guy ever believed in anything but money and himself. None of us should be taken for idiots. This crap has Pence stamped all over it.
Why? BJ is merely disputing the claim that Donald Trump doesn’t believe in God. Why does BJ have to produce evidence of anything?
If he is the one doing the doubting of what was posted, he needs to bring evidence. It’s pretty simple actually.
Twaddle. Coyne made a positive statement in the teeth of evidence. A man praying is evidence he is a believer. It’s not proof but it’s stronger than any evidence Coyne has adduced.
A group huge with a bunch of his boys in the white house oval office proves nothing. Praying in a picture is evidence of nothing. What church does he belong to. Where does he attend, I believe nowhere. Maybe he can walk on water too. Your teeth have fallen out. Go away. What are you guys…a tag team.
Seriously? I am not making any claim. I am asking for evidence of a claim that was made without any. It is not the burden of the questioner to producer evidence. It’s the burden of the claimant.
Otherwise, you could say Donald Trump believes reptilians are trying to take over the world, and when I ask you to produce evidence for your claim, you could simply respond, “no! You produce evidence I’m wrong!”
That is never how this works.
Here is the way it works for me and probably Prof. Coyne and millions of others. The history of Trump shows no religion. No attendance to any institution. He is a women groping, narcissistic, misogynistic and many other things. I see no room for religion in this guy. If you want to name him pope for a week go ahead. You are right, you are not making any claim, so go away.
We also know with plenty of evidence that this guy lies like a rug. Is that evidence of holiness also. Go get on the Trump train if you like – the gravy is gone.
You continue to get more and more uncivil. I don’t have to “go away.” You are the one attacking people’s intelligence for not agreeing with you and being nasty because others do not simply back off and agree or shut up.
Millions of people do not show belief in god in their public lived but still believe in god and even pray in their homes sometimes. All of your allusions to Trump’s character and personality do absolutely nothing to prove that he does not believe in god. Plenty of terrible people who did terrible things believed in god; in fact, I’m sure you have made many other comments in the past, as have we all, about how extremely religious people have done and do such things. Why you think his deeds and personality somehow preclude his belief in god is something I cannot deduce. It seems more like a shield against the fact that, at the end of the day, there really is no evidence to be produced that he doesn’t hold such belief.
You are not acting like a person who wants to engage in rational discourse on the matter. I am going away now, at least from you because you have become rather unpleasant to deal with regarding this subject.
Trump attended Norman Vincent Peale’s church for many years, which preached a sort of New Thought theology. “Believe and it becomes true” woo. And, presumably, the flip side of “Deny and it never happened.”
BJ
+1 on all your substantive points. In general people can believe in god without being churchgoers, or conforming to a church’s dicta.
As for your interlocutor, I think you were just behind the curve. 🙂
Thanks for that clue from Sastra. Good old Peale and the Marble Collegiate Church. Let me just quote from the last paragraph on the article I read – Peale’s ministry offers modern Evangelicals a cautionary tale given our embrace of a deeply flawed president on grounds of political expediency. If we define our Christianity pragmatically as a key to unlocking national success and security we may end up with a prosperous yet empty shell of a religion.
I am guessing we have accomplished more than an empty religion with this guy, at the very least a troubled country that is very broken.
Thanks, Craw. But of course you would say that. After all, we are, apparently, a “tag team” and I supposedly would like to get on the “Trump train.”
Pity poor Jeremy, he was left off the team!
Trump is a creature of Mamon. His only interests are fame and filthy lucre. He hasn’t got time or mental space for God, except to feign interest to manipulate the marks and yokels.
I know of no indication of Trump doing anything religious until he decided to take over the republican party and run for president. He may not be very clever but he knows you don’t get one without the other. The religion playing is just part of the scam he is in at this time. Others here who may be fooled may have also bought a few courses at Trump U.
” Others here who may be fooled may have also bought a few courses at Trump U.”
Nice personal attack on the intelligence of anyone here who doesn’t immediately bow to your belief in a claim for which there is zero evidence. Is that how we’re supposed to do things here, on a site for rational discussion?
That you have a *feeling* that he doesn’t believe in god constitutes absolutely nothing as far as proof he doesn’t believe in god goes.
Regarding him not previously showing public displays of such a belief: do all people who believe in god show it publicly? Do they all publicly pray? Do they all go to church? I alone know a good many people who don’t in any way show that they believe in god, even though they do.
“He hasn’t got time or mental space for God…”
Quite possibly his only virtue.
Literally, LOL.
+1
That’s a nice thought and all, but there have been tons of megalomaniacal idiots over the years who have a very strong belief in god and/or religion, so this isn’t an answer.
I’ve seen no evidence that Donald Trump has any interest in the question of the existence vel non of God — anymore than he has an interest in philosophy, or history, or the arts. It is a topic completely beyond his ken.
The only subjects Trump has ever devoted any attention to are real estate and network reality tv. All he knows outside of these cloistered worlds — certainly, all he knows of subjects like government and public policy and world events — is what a man with a remote can discover inadvertently while furiously clicking through the cable news channels in a desperate search for items about himself.
I’ve, personally, never seen any such evidence, either. That just leaves us in the position on not knowing one way or the other, not the position of making definitive statements that he doesn’t believe in god.
In fact, if anything we now have two pieces of evidence supporting the idea that he does have some belief in god — from him praying in the Oval Office (which I agree was a stunt, but still) and Sastra’s post about him being part of a church (which, while new-agey, seems to at least espouse belief in a higher power) long before he was even thinking about a political career. We have no evidence for him being an atheist.
If we could only get him to sign up for Google alerts on himself we might never hear from him again, he’d be so busy…
A perpetual motion machine?
I can see the headline’s now.
President Trump Refuses To Abide By The Laws Of Physics!
Not my place to butt in, but here goes anyway. This discussion seems to have gotten way too belligerent for the subject matter; you’re (plural) not talking war and peace, y’know. (And did anyone notice Jerry’s first sentence?*)
(Sorry…always wanting to make peace…)
(Also, sorry it looks like it’s directed just to you, BJ. Had to jump in somewhere.)
*Wait–apparently Craw did.
I agree, it has become far too belligerent, but I hope you’re not including me in that assessment. I have stayed civil throughout, not directing personal attacks at a single person despite having my intelligence and supposed (read: completely untrue) political affiliations denigrated, being accused of being part of some tag team of posters, and having other abuse hurled at me while being told to just “go away” for disagreeing with someone. I’ve still continued to remain civil during this discussion because (1) I think it’s the right thing to do, and (2) it’s important we be able to discuss even the most trivial things in a civil manner. This site is one of the last places where that’s (usually) possible, and that’s why it’s the only site where I post 🙂
By the way, I’d just like to say that I appreciate we’ve been able to disagree with each other in many instances during my time on this site, and I appreciate that I’ve always been able to have a friendly exchange of conflicting ideas with you. Thanks for that!
Um, maybe just a tad…persistent? 😉
(You did read JAC’s opening clause, right? In light of that, Randy’s similar opening might be understandable…)
Regarding your last graf, same to you. 🙂
I have no trouble nor shame in admitting that I can be persistent (though let’s not act like I started this nastiness, nor in any way contributed to it by reciprocating in kind) when I come expecting a civil discussion in good faith and am met with repeated attacks upon my intellect, have personal insults repeatedly hurled at me, have it implied that I am in league with other posters and am a Trump supporter, and told to just go away for having the temerity to disagree with a certain poster. But I remained civil throughout. This is the only website on which I comment because it is (usually) a place where everyone is respectful and disagrees civilly and in good faith. Unfortunately, there are sometimes outliers, but I am grateful for what Jerry has done here and will continue to post as he continues to maintain this overall environment 🙂
Sadly, this contretemps seems to have gotten Randy’s first post deleted, unfairly IMO, but IIRC it was a simple statement of his opinion, including his opinion/surmise (& Jerry’s) that Trump is atheist. I think this is another one of those infamous internet conversations where people are reading things exactly wrong. I just don’t hear Randy’s voice as anything but conversational (note that he said, “please give some evidence”), until his interlocutors insist on the importance of his producing evidence. (Notice that he does elaborate on why he holds the opinion he does, which should suffice in an ordinary social conversation. Aren’t we all basically on the same side here, at least regarding the idiocy that is religion? (Not to mention Trump…) If one is having a friendly conversation in someone’s living room one doesn’t usually get off on long tangents demanding that a casual comment be proven beyond doubt.
Personally, I agree with Randy, JAC, and Ken that that Trump’s religiosity is extremely dubious. But I don’t see why this ever escalated into such a demand that everyone see how right one side is and how wrong the other. That to me is uncivil.
One person attacked the intelligence of multiple people who didn’t agree with him (“Others here who may be fooled may have also bought a few courses at Trump U.”); he tells people to just leave the conversation so he can have it to himself and be crowned the very right man (to me: “You are right, you are not making any claim, so go away.” To Craw: “Your teeth have fallen out. Go away. What are you guys…a tag team.” — the tag team part obviously implying that Craw and either I or Jeremy must be tag-teaming Randy, not simply multiple people disagreeing with him in good faith); he implies that I must have what we all consider to be contemptible political beliefs simply for having the temerity to disagree with him (” Go get on the Trump train if you like – the gravy is gone.”), and, best of all, once he was proven wrong about Trump never being part of a church, he suddenly changed from condescending to gentlemanly — but only to the one who posted that evidence and wasn’t involved in the rest of the conversation, so had not yet taken his abuse. It’s OK, I wasn’t holding my breath for an apology.
Throughout the entire exchange, there was one extremely condescending and uncivil person, while everyone else was just trying to have a conversation like we normally do.
With regard to this: “I just don’t hear Randy’s voice as anything but conversational (note that he said, “please give some evidence”), until his interlocutors insist on the importance of his producing evidence. (Notice that he does elaborate on why he holds the opinion he does, which should suffice in an ordinary social conversation. Aren’t we all basically on the same side here, at least regarding the idiocy that is religion? ”
First, notice that it was I who made the initial comment; Randall was my interlocutor. But it really doesn’t matter, for if you’re going to defend a definitive claim with no known evidence, you cannot suddenly become belligerent when people inevitably ask how you know it’s true, and even worse, simultaneously demand evidence from others that the declarative is wrong. And when he asks me to “please give some evidence,” everyone here was right to say that it’s not my burden to do so, as I’m merely questioning a declarative that doesn’t have evidence to support it. I, as the questioner, am declaring nothing as fact. There is no reason to ask me for evidence in this case, unless the idea that Trump was not being a total jerkface in this one instance is so important to you that you don’t care about such things. It was this that so enraged Randy, and it’s when he started acting in this manner toward all of us who corrected him on the burden of evidence in such a case as this.
***Regardless of all this evidence/questions,/burden stuff, it comes down to one thing: everybody here was civil and willing to engage in an honest debate, except for Randall, who decided to insult everyone and be extremely condescending over multiple posts.***
That’s all this is about. It doesn’t matter that he was conversational for two posts first. He was rude, uncivil, and insulting.
Now, I’m done with this. I have no problem with you, but I no longer wish to discuss this matter further. I’ll see you on the next thread 😛
Funny, I was so sure that Randy had made a similar statement to Jerry’s to begin with that I even convinced myself it had been deleted. Glad you made me review that and realize that it was in fact Jerry’s wording itself that you were first addressing.
Otherwise, peace, BJ.
FWIW, although i frequently find myself in disagreement with your views, BJ, I totally agree with the point you have made in your original comment. Like many here, I find it highly unlikely that Trump has any religious belief, but that does not justify an assumption of atheism.
Most go barf now.
His son turned up the heat on him so he has to find as much allies as he possibly can.
“… worships at Our Lady of Perpetual Narcissism.” because he has an Immaculate Conception of himself.
Actually, I think of Trump as more of any “Immaculate DEception.”
He’ll be kneeling next a la Nixon and Kissinger. And we know how that ended. Roll on the day.
Just wait until Xmas time: they’ll likely erect an enormous crucifix on the White House lawn, and elsewhere I’m sure.
Religious psychos oblivious to the importance of secularism and the Constitution to which that moron swore an oath to uphold.
And if some of those in the White House get their way they’ll don their white robes and set fire it
*fire to it
Let him pray. Prayer works.
Right?
Mike
Might at least keep him out of trouble. Temporarily.
I’ve been collecting links to Right Wing Watch posts of evangelicals who believe Trump has been sent by God to deliver the country from Satan. They regularly pray on their radio, TV etc for Trump and for God to get rid of his enemies. They believe some Democrats are literally the Devil’s minions who want to destry the country.
For a good laugh and dozens of examples, check out http://www.rightwingwatch.org
That is a very sad laugh actually. Only the religious could actually believe it. I guess Donald Jr. hiring one of the top mob lawyers would indicate lots of satan trouble.
Just the idea that these religious people would be coming to the aid of this slim ball is comforting. I am starting to feel at piece.
“Slim ball” – excellent typo! 😀
Sorry about that. The editing here is terrible, everyone will be fired.
It is clear now that right-wing evangelicals couldn’t care less about Trump’s personal behavior and beliefs. What they do care about is that Trump supports the conservative agenda, which is the essence of what these evangelicals believe in. They are so scared of secularism and the thinning of their ranks that they would support anybody who seems to resist the tide. What a pitiful and hypocritical lot!
+1!
I never again want to hear them claim that they look for a “godly” candidate, or that character and morality matter.
And don’t forget, “family values”! Whoa, excuse me while I vomit into my waste basket!
You know, those “family values” of, among many others: Newt Gingrich, Helen Chenowith, Pete Domenici, Denny Hastert, Mark Sanford …
Which one was it that was found dead wearing two wet suits and with toys inserted? That’s one of the kinds of things that happens when your religion views sex as evil.
Your comment is ammo for me to read the photo, NOT as an image of Trump in prayer, but rather as an image of a primitive apotropaic ritual re-enacted in the Sanctum Sanctorum (the Oval Office), where the abject believers/subjects touch the object of veneration in hopes of being cured or saved or for good luck or something like that.
Ha ha – yeah. Good call! I wish I’d thought of it. If I ever get around to doing a post on those links, you’re getting a mention!
After deep scrutiny, I correct myself: this is absolutely, undeniably a photo of the back of Amelia Covfefe Earhart’s head. Anything else is Fake News.
😀
Yikes. I read that as Sanctum Santorum at first glance. The imagery was not good. Not good at all.
A good laugh, maybe, but also pretty frickin’ scary. The greater the delusion the more likely they’ll take some sort of action against said enemies. Which fact is not lost on Trump, et al, I’m sure.
I can smell the sulfur and feel the flames coming out of the Oval from here.
Someday our descendants will watch videos of these superstitious rituals with the same bemusement with which we read about burnt-flesh offerings.
I think the idea is that God’s ability to work through such an obviously flawed man as Trump is all more evidence of his (God’s, not Trump’s) power. Paraphrasing Paul, it is in men’s weakness that God is glorified.
And thus the obvious fact that T is unqualified in every way for the position he holds as POTUS can be safely disregarded.
Neat, huh? And they call *us* blind…
Why can’t god work through god?
Could god create a man so flawed that he couldn’t work through him?
Wow, that’s deep!
Yeah, where are my waders? The shit’s coming over the top of my hip-boots! 🙂
According to the original Universalists, no – even Satan gets saved. (From what I’m not sure.)
Quite a tableau. The two on the right look like they might be crying. The dark-haired man next to them looks like he’s grooving to a cool jam. Pence at least looks like he’s praying quietly. And the guy with the green ID looks like he’s trying to use his hands to make Trump levitate.
And Trump looks like he’s ducking while saying “Don’t touch the hair!”
Matthew 6:5:
Trump’s strategy is clearly to play to the mouth-breathing third of the public that constitutes his hardcore base. He knows that, so long as he keeps them on his side, he can cow the GOP establishment from crossing him. Every time Trump does something really stupid or repugnant, congressional Republicans grumble and grouse, maybe even pretend for a bit that they’ve finally had enough, but then they think about being “primaried” by a candidate from Trump’s horde of alt-right trolls, and they fall in line.
Things are starting to fall in line alright. Someone has already put in for impeachment, a democrat of course. We also see several GOP congress people starting to turn, based on the latest revelations on the meeting with the Russian lawyer and Trump team. I think if we are really paying attention to all of it…this guy is going to go. His son and especially his son-in-law is in deep shit as we speak. You can get 5 years for what Kushner has done already.
You’d think he would have lost the evangelical vote the instant he said the 2nd best book in the world next to the Bible was “The Art of the Deal”.
In Christian terms, he seems more like a despotic Roman Emporer, at least Nero if not Caligula or Herod.
Maybe Claudius?
I’ve watched a few New Age (esoteric spiritual) get-rich-quick scammers suddenly start inserting Jesus into their teachings when it comes out that the fraud squad is investigating them. So I’m not surprised to see Trump follow in their footsteps. Of course, he was never New Age, but only one step removed from that kind of Tony Robbins huckster — he’s even shared a stage with Robbins, and his campaign was largely motivational infomercial.
Well, Obama faked it too.
Good grief. Obama belonged to a Church in Chicago. Remember all that stuff with the crazy reverend Wright. Half the country had him as a Muslim for sure. At least Obama could spell religion, Trump wouldn’t recognize a bible if he fell over one.
Does anybody remember the gigantic bible that Bill Clinton as president would ostentatiously sport on Sundays? Reflective of that mentality that the bigger your bible, the holier (than thou) thou art (no matter how short your fingers)?
The lovely thing about evangelicals is that they’re so easy to pander to.
Bubba was a world-class panderer. And in situations like this, he was at his lip-biting best.
FWIW, I generally enjoyed that talent of his. Like watching a master class on the subject.
Yes, it’s probably as close as an American can come to what an Italian experiences watching Pavarotti sing an aria from Verdi. 🙂
I speculate that not a few Americans similarly responded to Mario Lanza’s singing.
LOL!
We forget that he is an actor. He has to play that part while in office.
What the fuck is wrong with these people?
It’s a Milgram experiment where instead of giving electric shocks to someone else, one self-administers humiliation.
I’ve been hoping I’d live long enough to see an atheist U.S. president, but this was not was I was hoping for!
Not a half-bad way to get a massage for free.
As Ernest Ainsley and Robin Williams would say, “Ooooouuuuuttt Spiiiirrrriiitt!”
What, Trump must be an atheist because he worships himself? Yeah, because atheists do that, it’s a defining trait.
Trump spent a lot of time in “The Power of Positive Thinking” NVPeale’s church, and left to his own devices he surrounds himself with New Thought Prosperity Gospel types. He’s most likely a Christian-lite variation of New Ager, with a conviction that the universe bends itself to our will if we are strong and have enough faith/belief. I don’t count that as atheist, it’s a supernatural cosmos which works like God.
Thanks for that info. I suspected he must have had some connection with that given the language he uses — motivational cult-speak.
Just checking for head lice…
Paris is worth a mass.
Not enough evidence, but Trump *is* very impressionable. Not exactly president material.
Anyway, this place among Trump’s CowFartFart material.
As if the White House is not polluted enough with Trumpelstiltskin sewage, check out his anti-science Army Secretary pick: http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/01/politics/kfile-trump-army-secretary-pick-theory-of-evolution/index.html