Two more attacks

How long is this going to go on before people admit that religion is largely behind these attacks, and that the real culprits are the attackers, not the colonialist West? But I’m violating my own dictum of first honoring the dead. Fortunately, there aren’t any dead from these two attacks—yet. We know that three people are seriously injured, and that both attacks were on families.

The first, widely reported, is Monday night’s attack on train passengers in Germany by a 17-year-old Afghan immigrant. The boy (man?) used an axe to attack four members of a family from Hong Kong (two are seriously injured) before he was shot dead. This morning ISIS claimed responsibility, and investigators found the black flag of ISIS, and other signs of radicalization, in the boy’s room. Of course, we don’t know if the boy was really a “soldier of ISIS,” as the group claims, but there were certainly signs that he was following their instructions, even if indirectly.

The second attack, just reported in the Torygraph, involved a family of four French people who were knifed by a Moroccan-born man. The attack took place in an Alpine resort, and the man reportedly attacked them while shouting they were dressed too scantily. A mother, 46, and two of her daughters, 12 and 14, weren’t mortally wounded, but another daughter, only eight, was reported as “fighting for her life” after being stabbed in the chest.

The Torygraph report contains this sentence: “The local mayor, Edmond Francou, said he preferred ‘not to speculate about the motive of the attack’ in the wake of the massacre in Nice last week.

More will be revealed, of course. But if the guy’s stated motivations were genuine, how can you exculpate religion in this attack, or dare to pin it on the West? How many murders can the apologists dismiss as just retribution for the crimes of Western governments, many of whose citizens are opposed to Western incursion into the Middle East?



  1. rickflick
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:31 am | Permalink

    This is really disgusting. How many more people have to be hacked at with knives? Many human beings don’t seem to have much inclination to think for themselves. They follow whatever sounds good to them at the moment. If the ideology or doctrine resonates with some horrible aspect of personality, the decent into violence begins.

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

      Sorry to bring levity to horrible reality, but your speil-lung choker has accidentally recreated a pre-spelling checker error. The caver’s magazine ‘Descent’ received approaches from a bunch of prudes addressed to ‘Decent’ magazine. Given the amount of stories about people in skin-tight rubber suits playing in liquid mud … sorry, but it’s a rare moment of levity in a horrible situation.

      • rickflick
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 8:06 pm | Permalink

        I don’t mind the humor at my expense. It’s the least I can do under the circumstances. I pride myself on such poor spelling, I often provide stimulus for grins and chuckles – even my own.

  2. Cindy
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:33 am | Permalink

    Nothing to do with Islam:

  3. Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    How long is this going to go on before people admit that religion is largely behind these attacks, …

    Following on from the post on the BBC’s radio program a couple of days ago, last night the main BBC TV evening-news program led with a piece on the Nice attack. Included very prominently in this piece was a segment on the mourning family of one of the victims.

    The particular family they choose was that of a victim who was Muslim. The piece consisted largely of them saying: “this was nothing to do with religion” and “our sister was a Muslim, so how can the killer be a Muslim?”.

    Anyone think that the BBC’s choice of victim-family to highlight was coincidental, or were they editorialising?

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:59 am | Permalink

      What a useless statement. Why don’t we turn the question around and say if the attacker was Muslim, how could the victim be Muslim? These are empty platitudes and ultimately devolve into defining “true” Islam. Extend this further and we start discussing “true” religion. I really feel at times that the West has lost its collective mind. Have we really forgotten that arguments over true religion have resulted in many centuries of sectarian conflict? Let’s stop playing into their hands.

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      Saw that too. Might be worth posting this at every opportunity:

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:23 pm | Permalink

      When making a report about the human being who became victims of terror, there is nothing wrong to portray some who happened to be Muslims. But I am disgusted that the Muslim victims of Islamist terror are (ab)used to whitewash Islam. Communism killed many communists (some estimate that the communist dictator Stalin killed more communists than all anti-communist dictators put together). Is this a proof that communism is good or not to blame for the Holodomor and Gulag? No, it isn’t.

      Actually, of all reports in the aftermath of terror acts, the ones that sadden me most are those showing some Muslim victim, an ordinary person who was doing his job and caring for his family like you and me, and the bereaved family members saying that this was not true Islam and the true Islam is good. My worst part wants to shake the survivors and shout, “What exactly is needed for you to wake up?”

  4. jeffery
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:46 am | Permalink

    “How long is this going to go on before people admit that religion is largely behind these attacks, and that the real culprits aren’t the attackers, but the colonialist West?”

    PCC- did you intend to say that the “culprits” were the “colonialist West”? Seems like a mis-type….

  5. Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:48 am | Permalink

    I think you mean the real culprits are the attackers and not the West.

  6. Merilee
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:50 am | Permalink


  7. Claudia Baker
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:52 am | Permalink

    I guess apologists don’t want to blame Islam for fear of an escalation of attacks.

    Oh wait…

    • Cindy
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:03 am | Permalink

      Of course, ‘attacking all Muslims’ is defined as ‘any and all criticism of Islam or Islamic inspired attacks’

      • Kevin
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:19 am | Permalink

        Most Christians are grown up. They are still deluded but they generally have manners. Some Christians act like children, throwing sticks and stones when they are called names. And so it is with Muslims. The difference is a sizable minority of Muslims act like eight year old boys and no one among them is willing to be a parent.

      • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:26 pm | Permalink

        “The more you speak about Islam and against all Muslims, the more terrorists we create.”

        Name another ideology that someone would say that about while also arguing that the ideology isn’t a problem.

        • Cindy
          Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:35 pm | Permalink

          There are dozens of anti-Christian articles on the Patheos blog network every day. I check the Friendly Atheist every morning, and there are at least 5 articles critical of Christianity by the time that I am awake.

          So, how many Christian terrorists has Hemant Mehta created? How many Christian terrorists has PCC created?

          If all religions are equally bad (as currently practised), then I would expect to see more Christian terrorists.

          • Posted July 19, 2016 at 2:07 pm | Permalink

            “If all religions are equally bad (as currently practised), then I would expect to see more Christian terrorists.”

            Or if religion has nothing to do with it, and it’s only the result of speaking badly about an entire group of people, where are all the LGBT, or atheist terrorists?

      • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

        Yes, I was disappointed to hear this from Malala. And because she said it, nobody could be rude enough to reply, “Yes, and this is exactly the problem with Islam and its followers.”

      • keith cook + / -
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 6:37 pm | Permalink

        Sadly, she is proving herself not to understand the nature of her beast by making the above statement.
        In a perverse way I can except it as true, as in, the lost simpletons of Islam are motivated by the criticism of their beloved kill scriptures.. insults from the west, Charlie Hebdo case in point.
        So, one of these above murderous attempts was motivated by skimpy clothing, if true, an Islamic lose canon has his day because his neuronal circuits can’t cope with light summer clothing. Malala Yousafzai and the rest of Islam, that is simply pathetic and condemnation is warranted and justified.

  8. frankschmidtmissouri
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 9:56 am | Permalink

    The Baton Rouge cop-killer’s motivation didn’t correspond to any known variety of religion. He claimed to be a “sovereign citizen.”

    The issue is ideological hatred and religion is only one example, albeit more noticeable presently than most.

    • Torbjörn Larsson
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:16 am | Permalink

      Looks like a variant of anarchism? An ironically disorganized one.

      • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:20 pm | Permalink

        Anarchism proper at least has something of an intellectual pedigree. The “sovereign citizens” movements (plural: we have some here in Canada too) are just pseudo-legal BS, as far as I can tell.

    • somer
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:26 am | Permalink

      The topic is not that – police shootings have inspired several violent responses with 8 people dead. Islamist terror has left thousands dead in the west alone in under 2 decades. Sorry – completely different topic

    • Jay T Holovacs
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 11:25 am | Permalink

      Religion does not appear to be his motivation as much as radical racism. There were some screen grabs (presumably real) about BLM activists complaining about the sympathy the white victims of the Nice attack were getting.

      • Filippo
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 3:34 pm | Permalink

        ” . . . BLM activists complaining about the sympathy the white victims of the Nice attack were getting.”

        Do I correctly take it that there were non-white Nice attack victims, and it was quite fine by these BLM noble soul activists to have sympathy for them?

        • infiniteimprobabilit
          Posted July 22, 2016 at 8:02 am | Permalink

          Just a wild guess, but I’d guess the victims in Nice were predominantly white and the black victims (of which there were probably statistically a few) weren’t separately reported, why should they be? And that BLM was criticising the sympathy for the Nice victims as a whole against the perceived lack of sympathy for American black victims in the US.

          As I said, that’s a wild guess, could be wrong.


    • Jeremy Tarone
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 11:49 am | Permalink

      The sovereign citizen movement is a mixed combination of white power, Christian cult, right wing extremism and con men that originated with anti Semitic KKK and Neo Nazi groups.

      Sovereign citizen movement itself is a kind of quasi religion, conspiracy theory and faith based ideology. It’s based on a complex set of beliefs that are at best fractured and convoluted, spun out of a web of lies, distortions and fabrications based partly on old out of date case law that has been almost entirely superseded by later jurisprudence. They have their own scripture based on old laws and fictionalized stories.

      It’s attracted a larger minority following by hiding or ignoring it’s racist origins, and keeping various segments separate. The shooter claims to be part of a native tribe of black people that has existed in North America for thousands of years.

      Like so many in the movement, he was deeply hypocritical. He said we should be:
      “waging war against Beta-Males, Complainers-&-Blamers, Purposeless and [P****] Whipped Men. And anything else that would keep a Man from walking in his complete and full masculinity.”

      It’s amusing how he called others “complainers & blamers”, but it doesn’t count when he did it. The movement is entirely based around complaining and blaming. And of course masculinity is dependent on his own definition, he can define his life but others aren’t allowed to live life how they want to, they are called “beta-males”. Like so many Abrahamic religions, women are supposed to be at the beck and call of men, and are inferior.

      Sovereign citizens elevate themselves as being special, They don’t just demand rights for all, they have special rights over and above the rest of the ‘sheep’ they so often condemn and criticize. Some by virtue of having special heritage, some by claiming it.
      The movement has a great deal in common with other cults and religions. Including the requirement of ignoring reality when it comes to the dogma and ideology of the movement.


  9. Kevin
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:06 am | Permalink

    So long as there is the deluded hope that heaven is real, criticism of another persons faith is seen as an attack on one’s faith.

    Taking the step to ridicule another’s faith is no longer independent of diminishing one’s faith. Secularists are the most capable of recognizing Islam as just another ancient myth and Christians want no alignment with that lot.

  10. somer
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:09 am | Permalink

    We keep hearing these people are mentally disturbed because we don’t want to believe the truth = whether conservatives or the left. But all these extreme Islam inspired attacks in the west, where not highly planned affairs undertaken by multiple well armed individuals, are still done by people who are capable and not psychotic, hallucinating or plainly strange. They may be agitated and disturbed – who isn’t at some stage in their life – but they are organised in how they go about the attack, they usually have a job – but if their history is known its a history basically of being a sociopath – a nasty aggressive person or a ruthless con artist with a violent history (man haron monis in Sydney), or petty criminals, wife bashers. Its now thought after extensive investigation that Man Haron Monis most likely came to Australia because he was wanted for sex crimes in Iran. He came to Australia and pretended at first to be a businessman on temporary stay – later he claimed he had been a poet who had offended the Iranian authorities with unspecified poetry and surprisingly gained asylum. Once a permanent resident, he went on to pretend to be a mystic healer who sexually assaulted dozens of his clients. He wrote abusive letters to the families of Australian soldiers killed in action in Iraq and Afghanistan calling them killers, invaders etc. He was likely to be charged with killing his ex wife by setting her on fire at the time that he undertook the Martin Place seige which action he claimed for ISIS. So his past was catching up with him and he saw his chance to at least gain kudos with some at home and particularly abroad and maybe survive.

    Such people find nasty ideologies attractive – and nasty ideologies ascribe great glory to nasty actions which makes these people feel important and gains them a core of admirers even if they aren’t much liked where they live. They are Muslims or converts to Islam because the message of the ideology and the “glory” of carrying out its precepts obviously pertain to Muslims, not non Muslims. Resentment is the flip side of glory seeking and domination – it isn’t just the prerogative of genuine pushback. The colonialist resents the loss of a colony or that an imperialist rival takes some of what they deem “theirs”.

    The fact is that the worst aspects of the religion form an ideological component that is very attractive to certain types of aggressive poorly functioning people. This is useful to ISIS in the West where they want generic low skill attacks – in the real war in Syria they take higher functioning people. The Bataclan attacks were highly organised so these were much more formally aligned with ISIS – not just turned on by their website – as in the case of the Nice killer – just a few weeks before his killing. Bouhlel had suspended sentence for assault, had separated from wife and children on account of his violence, had recently been fired for sleeping at the wheel but he had reconnoitred the site of the attack multiple times in the weeks leading up the attack, and he had acquired weapons, not to mention hired the truck. He had recently turned religious

    Different courses different horses but still very dangerous.

  11. Damien McLeod
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:27 am | Permalink

    Religion may be the root of all stupidity, ignorance, and asininity, but it certainly is the root of a very large percentage of it.

  12. Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    @Jerry: this first sentence confused me. “How long is this going to go on before people admit that religion is largely behind these attacks, and that the real culprits aren’t the attackers, but the colonialist West?”

    I thought you were going to argue that the real attackers were the colonialist West.

    I didn’t understand until I got to your last paragraph.

  13. Posted July 19, 2016 at 10:58 am | Permalink

    Latest news says the little French girl is now out of danger. But psychologically, how do you live knowing that someone tried to kill you when you were 8 years old?

    It is accelerating…

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:29 pm | Permalink

      Thank you for the good news.

    • Posted July 20, 2016 at 12:57 am | Permalink

      TIP: If you want to link a Youtube or other video without having the whole thing show up on this site, enter this code:

      Xa href=”URL”Ywhatever the link should be X/aY

      where ‘X’ should be replaced by ”, the standard HTML tag delimiters. Once you’ve done it a couple of times, it’s easy to remember. At least, it has worked for me. I’m not sure why, if you just insert the URL, WordPress insists on doing an “embed”, which inserts the whole thing.

      I hope this works now. 😉

      • Posted July 20, 2016 at 5:32 am | Permalink

        That did not come out. Replace X with the less-than sign and Y with the greater-than sign.

        • Posted July 20, 2016 at 5:57 pm | Permalink

          Giving this a shot from my phone, you want to do this:

          <a href=”URL”>whatever the link should be </a>

          • Posted July 20, 2016 at 5:58 pm | Permalink

            Once everyone has that down we’ll move on to the lesson on escape characters. 🙂

            • Posted July 20, 2016 at 7:54 pm | Permalink

              Your html-fu is impressive. On a phone, no less – ack! Hold the brackets, hold the lettuce, special characters definitely upset us.

  14. Heather Hastie
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 11:00 am | Permalink

    “… too scantily clad.”

    Religion has given this man the idea that he has the right to decide what it is okay for girls and women to wear, and to enforce that himself in the absence of morality police.

    This happens because too many imams use their religion as an excuse for misogyny and teach such values to their followers. This includes rules for female dress by which a woman’s morality and thereby her worth are judged.

    It shouldn’t need to be reiterated:
    1. No one has the right to judge others by what they’re wearing.
    2. A person’s right to life does not depend on their clothing or lack thereof.

    • Randall Schenck
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:01 pm | Permalink

      Now hold on there. Are you absolutely sure there was no provocation there, some tiny percent of evidence that would allow some hint of finger pointing at this alleged victim.

      Sorry, I was having one of those occasional flash backs to yesterday and beyond.

      • Heather Hastie
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 8:43 pm | Permalink


      • Linn
        Posted July 20, 2016 at 4:31 am | Permalink

        I read that discussion from two days ago as well, and found the victim blaming to be ridiculous.

        I suppose some would claim that this family was also responsible for poking the hive, or standing in front of a train or whatever stupid analogies they can come up with.

        After all, how dare a mother and her young girls sit in an alpine resort without a sack covering their bodies. Is it not understandable that a man can be provoked by an 8 year old and two teenagers dressed like sluts. They should have stayed at home or they should have been rational enough to change gender, then this would never have happened.

        And those train passengers should have picked a more rational means of transport where they wouldn’t provoke the killer. After all, two things were necessary for the murder: The killer with his axe AND the victims choosing to take the train.
        (Probably no need to point out that this is sarcasm, but in these times you never know).

  15. Damien McLeod
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 11:15 am | Permalink

    My comment is wrong, I left out the word not between may and be. If WordPress wasn’t so dumb they’d provide an edit button for demented senile old curmudgeons like me.

    • Damien McLeod
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 11:19 am | Permalink

      please ignore all comments made by me today. If I can’t edit them than they are all wrong misspoken and incorrect and worthless

      • Larry
        Posted July 19, 2016 at 8:24 pm | Permalink

        Haha! Know how you feel. Without the edit button, we’re expected to be perfect, all the time! That’s a hard expectation to live up to.

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:32 pm | Permalink

      I understood you anyway (though I am English-second-language, and from the excuses I read about Mrs. Trump, nobody expects folks like us to tie 2 words together in English).

  16. Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:25 pm | Permalink

    Again, the double standard.

    When a violent act is done in the name of: Land, money, politics, advantage, etc., people take the motivations of the perpetrator at face value.

    When the perpetrator proclaims to all his religious motivations, then we must search for the real reason behind his actions. (I realize women have done acts like these; but they are vanishingly rare.)

    Really, Islam is a religion of peace and love. Hence all the murders.

  17. Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:27 pm | Permalink

    And, seriously: Muslims living in free, democratic societies in the “west”: If you don’t like conditions, you are free to move on to countries more to your liking.

    But freedom loving people and secularists will oppose you all the way. We won’t let you drag our homes back to the middle ages.

    • Cindy
      Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

      And, seriously: Muslims living in free, democratic societies in the “west”: If you don’t like conditions, you are free to move on to countries more to your liking.

      Their way is superior to ours, so it is incumbent upon us to submit to their will.

      This is political Islam – where the religion is inseparable from the politics. Where the non-believers must submit or die.

      Of course, #notallmuslims, but those who choose to emigrate in order to escape theocracy are very different from those who are fleeing war and who feel that their culture is superior.

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 12:33 pm | Permalink

      + 1

  18. Diana MacPherson
    Posted July 19, 2016 at 2:26 pm | Permalink

    And so the Weltschmerz returns.

  19. Posted July 19, 2016 at 6:47 pm | Permalink

    Many of the most important mores of Western society are inimically opposed to those of Islam many of whose devout simply do not know how to behave in a civil society.

  20. Posted July 19, 2016 at 7:57 pm | Permalink

    At the risk of becoming unpopular –

    “Real culprits”? That sounds like moral responsibility talk to me.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with moral responsibility talk in my book. But I also like causal responsibility talk. And causal responsibility usually branches out in multiple directions.

    For example, I think hornets are violent, aggressive creatures. And it in no way detracts from that statement to observe that, if someone is poking their nest with a stick, that is also a causal factor involved in nearby people getting stung. If a friend of the stick-poker stands silently by, while this is happening, the friend is likely to get stung too. Hornets aren’t particularly bright. The fact that the friend hasn’t himself harmed the hornets, is likely to be lost on them. I would recommend to this bystander, try to persuade the stick-poker to stop it. Trying to mutate hornets into a gentler species, while it would be nice, can take a lower priority.

    • Posted July 19, 2016 at 8:03 pm | Permalink

      Of course, to caveat against myself, there is a broader context. Most people seem to find it hard to disentangle causal and moral responsibility. (I frankly don’t get that.) So, while factually stating that causal responsibility is multiple, it’s important to clarify that one is not morally excusing the perpetrators, nor those who incite violence.

  21. Posted July 20, 2016 at 1:21 am | Permalink

    Actually, the motivation of the attacker is unknown, and the one attributed to him is a rumor, which has been explicitly contradicted by police in an official statement. No motive for the attack is currently known.

    Also of note: the suspect had no police record prior to the attack, and apparently the two families had been hanging out together for about a week of their vacations at the same resort.

    For info, the Dauphiné Liberé, from which this story is drawn, is the local paper for the region here, including the town where the incident took place. It’s not associated with either the right or the left, and has staff on site since it’s local.

  22. Posted July 20, 2016 at 3:17 am | Permalink

    I think we can all agree that religion (Islam in particular) is a major factor in these murders. The million dollar question is what to do about it?

    I believe there is no other way than to stick to the rule of law and using the freedom of speech to defend and spread secular/atheist ideas.

    Unfortunately, people from the whole political spectrum are exploiting the situation to advocate government policies such as curbing immigration. This is a serious issue and needs to be dealt with by the atheist community.

    This is what I think:
    All economic, sociological, and ethical issues aside, advocating anti-immigration and pro-war policies is an admission of defeat for the camp of reason and logic. Is this what the beacon for humanity and progress has come to? Denying entry to war refugees just because ISIS claims they are infiltrators? Without evidence, without fact-checking, without going case by case? This is not the atheism I proudly signed up for when I first read the God Delusion. I am not going to ally myself with a far-right Christian bigot or a neo-Nazi lunatic just because a Muslim child who has lost her entire family, may do bad things in the future!

    As I see it, Islamic terrorists are not much different than the left leaning terror groups during the cold war. Groups such as Baader-Meinhoff showed the same traits and suffered from the same set of psychological delusions as today’s Islamic terrorists. We need to preserve our sense of proportion and don’t turn this into something it is not: a full-fledged cold or even hot war against the Muslim world. If this is a struggle, it is a Western/free world one not an Islamic one. In fact, I don’t even care about he future of Islam!

  23. ashdeville
    Posted July 20, 2016 at 4:07 am | Permalink

    Maybe what we need to look at is the nature of a muslim upbringing as experienced by its adherents. Islam is basically a set of rules that are rigorously enforced with added kudos being given to those who most slavishly follow the rules. Everything from how and when to pray all the way through to how to go to the toilet.

    In my mind this is just programming people to think and behave in the same way and people subjected to this kind of intense programming will always be easier to control if you want to adjust their worldview to one that is more extreme and bloody. This is how religions work – see the old Jesuit canard. But with islam it is far more intense and this is reinforced by cultural mores and the like.

    I cannot see anyone ever chamging this- it is truly a poisonous ideology.

  24. HaggisForBrains
    Posted July 20, 2016 at 5:10 am | Permalink

    Note that both attacks occurred in Europe, where firearms are generally subject to controls. Had these attacks occurred in the USA, I think we would be looking at a high death toll.

    • Richard
      Posted July 20, 2016 at 7:19 am | Permalink

      But, but, if the Good Guyz with the Gunz had been there, they could have stopped the attacks!

      Seriously, I have wondered whether any of the gun lobby in the USA have used the Nice attack as a justification for concealed or open carry, along the lines of “Well, if the French in Nice had been carrying guns, they could have stopped the truck driver right away”. Has anyone seen that argument being made?

      What would have happened? I suspect that if the bystanders had possessed firearms and used them, it would have been a case of startled, frightened and untrained people taking hasty and badly-aimed shots at the truck, missing it and possibly hitting other bystanders, who might then have fired back at those apparently atacking them.

    • Posted July 20, 2016 at 8:45 am | Permalink

      I immediately noted the same thing when this happened. Yet, the NRA will twist this around to say that bad guys still find ways to kill people while ignoring the added speed and efficiency that easy access to firearms provides. One would think the recent massacres of armed cops in America (cops surrounded by many other armed cops in fact) should lay to rest the “only way to stop a bad guy with a gun…” trope. But it won’t.

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