Mass shooting of police in Baton Rouge; at least three officers killed, four wounded

This apparently just happened; as CNN reports, police officers have been shot in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, by a man with a rifle, and at least three are dead.  At least four others are hospitalized in critical condition.  So much for the notion that good guys with guns can neutralize a bad guy with a gun.

We don’t of course know what happened; this may be an act of revenge for the police killing of Alton Sterling on July 5.

51 Comments

  1. mdeschane
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:53 am | Permalink

    Oops, the pope forgot to include cops in his prayers.

  2. Randall Schenck
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:02 am | Permalink

    Always think possibly a copycat. Should try not to use the word cat on such a subject.

    • rickflick
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 12:24 pm | Permalink

      Ape might be a better choice.

      • Randall Schenck
        Posted July 17, 2016 at 1:27 pm | Permalink

        I was thinking something with human or homo in it because Apes nor cats want their name on this.

        • Tim Harris
          Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:10 pm | Permalink

          homogestio; homogestus? Different meaning of ‘homo’ of course!

  3. Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Good heavens (pardon the expression). Things seem to be accelerating.

  4. Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    “this may be an act of revenge for the police killing of Alton Sterling on July 5.”
    —-
    So will the unspoken part of this sentence be “…so they kinda had it coming”? What was the need for this kind of speculation on motive and possible excuse to the killer? Outrageous.

    • Cliff Melick
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:54 am | Permalink

      So will the unspoken part of this sentence be “…so they kinda had it coming”? What was the need for this kind of speculation on motive and possible excuse to the killer? Outrageous.

      I don’t think this was implied by Jerry, as much as it was inferred by you.

      • Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:56 am | Permalink

        Can you answer why there was a reference to the previous shooting (horrible and unacceptable as it was) if not to draw some conclusion or speculation of ‘justified motive’?

        • Cliff Melick
          Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:59 am | Permalink

          Simply to suggest a motive, neither justified or unjustified?

        • Posted July 17, 2016 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

          Okay, KIA, as everybody else recognizes, I was just wondering why someone would kill so many cops. I CERTAINLY don’t think they had it coming, and your speculation that that’s what I meant is so far off the mark that it’s not even wrong. I wonder what kind of person would draw the conclusion you did, but I won’t speculate on your motivations.

          You will either apologize for your stupid comment about my motivations, and do so immediately, or be banned. If you actually read this website, you’d know that I have absolutely zero sympathy with anyone who wants to shoot police.

          JEBUS.

          And your phrase “outrageous,” which you pulled out of your nether orifice thinking that I approved of cop-killing, applies to your own kneejerk reaction.

          Now apologize or I’ll ban you.

          • Posted July 17, 2016 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

            I think I know what’s going on here, based on what I can remember of the user’s opinions from previous threads. I suspect that the comment above was not sincere, but a game of GOTCHA: KIA believes that “blowback” explanations for Islamic terrorism are too often dismissed as excuse-making or victim-blaming, believes that the events in Baton Rouge are analogous, and is trying to catch people in a moment of supposed hypocrisy in order to make that point.

            That’s my guess, anyway, though I may have the user mistaken. Still a pretty rude way to make the point, regardless.

          • Eric Grobler
            Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:40 pm | Permalink

            I CERTAINLY don’t think they had it coming,
            Obviously no normal person would think that.

            Maybe the insanity around the world is making us all hyper sensitive.
            Perhaps he saw articles suggesting that the Nice massacre was not related to Islam but “blowback” for French colonialism.

            However I think in the minds of these killers they do see it as retaliation for the killing of “innocent blacks”. The problem is the black youth are indoctrinated with this false narrative.

            • Tim Harris
              Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:18 pm | Permalink

              By asserting that ‘black youth’ are all ‘indoctrinated’ by what you call a ‘false narrative’, are you suggesting that all young black people are itching to take revenge, or support such acts of ‘revenge’? And what is this ‘false narrative’ with which, according to you, ‘black youth’ are being indoctrinated? Are you suggesting that none of the young black people recently shot by the American police were innocent, and that they therefore deserved to be shot?

              • Eric Grobler
                Posted July 18, 2016 at 12:40 am | Permalink

                Are you suggesting that none of the young black people recently shot by the American police were innocent, and that they therefore deserved to be shot?

                No, obviously the police in the US are terrible. The narrative I am referring too is that the police target blacks specifically.

                Do you believe that poor whites and Latinos are not also subject to police brutality?
                The reason that blacks are per capita more subject to police brutality is that blacks commit more violence and crime per capita.

                The focus should be to reform the police and address the dysfunctional inner city black communities.

                that all young black people are itching to take revenge
                Not all but some obviously are and they are being instigated by the radical left.

              • Tim Harris
                Posted July 18, 2016 at 7:22 am | Permalink

                Well, that was a quick climb-down, wasn’t it? And then a bit of wriggling. I don’t know where you pick your information up (some sort of right-wing gutter-press, perhaps?), but it has been reiterated any number of times recently, and not just by disreputable leftists, whom we can all agree to dislike and feel superior to, since we of course know the truth, nor in disreputable lefty publications that we wouldn’t want to sully ourselves by reading, that the American police DO target black people specifically.

              • Tim Harris
                Posted July 18, 2016 at 5:26 pm | Permalink

                ‘Gainfully employed by a Montessori school for almost 20 years and a member of the Teamsters Local 320, Castile was stopped 46 times between 2002 and the day he died…’

    • Mark Sturtevant
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 11:59 am | Permalink

      No, your idea about the ‘unspoken’ part is quite off the mark. No one should need to elaborate that such a thing was possibly an act of revenge in the mind of the shooter. And what other motive could there possibly be? The shooting was far from random.

    • CB
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 12:21 pm | Permalink

      Revenge killing is in no way any kind of excuse in any case.

      • Jonathan Wallace
        Posted July 18, 2016 at 4:31 am | Permalink

        I don’t think anyone is suggesting it is an excuse. Seeking to understand the motive for a crime does not mean that you are seeking to excuse the crime.

  5. Alex
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 12:07 pm | Permalink

    Two people were also shot and killed in a Florida hospital.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/us/florida-hospital-shooting/index.html

  6. rickflick
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 12:28 pm | Permalink

    Good grief!

  7. Achrachno
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 1:57 pm | Permalink

    I seem to be Mr. This-may-not-be-what-it-looks-like this week.

    From reports I’ve read, this was perhaps not a targeted shooting aimed at police. There were reports of a fight and/or persons with rifles in a parking lot, possibly with shooting taking place, and the police responded and a general gunfight took place. Multiple officers were shot and at least 3 killed.

    How about we wait to decide for a day or two until we have enough facts to decide what’s going on?

    In the mean time we can express our gratitude for the police when they have to respond to dangerous situations, and perhaps ponder whether having such an well-armed citizenry is a good thing. I’m guessing the there was one or more semi-automatic rifles involved in these police killings, just as in Dallas. We’ll see if I’m right in my guess. I’d emphasize that that’s just a wild guess.

    • Mark Sturtevant
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 4:58 pm | Permalink

      This is reasonable, but hard to do given the recent history. I spoke for the same caution regarding the truck massacre in France, although so far it looks like that dude was radicalized after all.

    • Eric Grobler
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:52 pm | Permalink

      How about we wait to decide for a day or two until we have enough facts to decide what’s going on

      You are absolutely right. If we and the media would do that there would be less tension in the air.

  8. allison
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 2:21 pm | Permalink

    Just your average day in Second Amendment Land.

    • Claudia Baker
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 2:40 pm | Permalink

      Gun happy, rootin’ tootin’ cowboy, crazy land.

    • Mark R.
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

      Another sign of America’s creeping demise.

      • gravelinspector-Aidan
        Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:29 pm | Permalink

        America’s creeping demise.

        This is a usage of “creeping” which I’m not very familiar with. It’s “creeping” in the sense of “barrelling down the motorway ton-up with blues-n-twos, towards a bridge that isn’t there”?

        • Mark R.
          Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:45 pm | Permalink

          Creeping as in slowly moving towards demise.

          • Mark R.
            Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

            I probably didn’t use it properly, but I liked the sound of it. 🙂

          • Posted July 17, 2016 at 9:44 pm | Permalink

            (I believe Aidan is humorously pointing out that there is nothing slow about the way Murica is moving toward some awful crisis.)

  9. Heather Hastie
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 4:32 pm | Permalink

    Those of us who don’t live in the US still have bad guys in our countries. But, they don’t have such easy access to guns and there’s no acceptance that anyone has the right to own or carry a gun, especially a hand gun.

    We watch the same movies and TV shows, play the same video games, have similar cultures. The only real difference is lack of a 2nd Amendment.

    • Eric Grobler
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:55 pm | Permalink

      Those of us who don’t live in the US still have bad guys in our countries. But, they don’t have such easy access to guns and there’s no acceptance that anyone has the right to own or carry a gun, especially a hand gun.

      Where do you live? Obviously not in France!
      Actually I do not entirely disagree with you 🙂

      • Heather Hastie
        Posted July 17, 2016 at 7:01 pm | Permalink

        I live in New Zealand. Like the British, even our police don’t carry guns.

        • Eric Grobler
          Posted July 17, 2016 at 8:20 pm | Permalink

          I live in Ireland, the police also do not carry guns and they are respected.

          • Christopher
            Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:09 pm | Permalink

            I’m mostly Irish, can I come live there? Sure, it’s been 200 years or so since my ancestors lived there, or anywhere else but the US, but why should I suffer for their mistakes?!

            I live in Kansas City, where this twat gunman was apparently from, and we had a handful of gun murders in addition. My son’s moved to Chicago, not much safer, statistically speaking, but he claims he’s ok since most of the murders happen in certain neighborhoods, as they do here in KC (it’s also one thing that nobody discusses with the police brutality thing, as you get accused of racism for asking the question about why they happen where they do). Frankly, I’m quite sick of it all. I know right now that if I were to head to my dad’s, he’d be sitting in front of the TV with a pistol, loaded, on the table next to him. I just don’t get it.

            • Eric Grobler
              Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:22 pm | Permalink

              In Ireland if the police stop you for a traffic violation they will just walk casually to your window give you a warning or ticket without any aggressive behavior.

              I have not visited the US, do the police treat everyone as if they stop you at a roadblock in Baghdad?
              Is everyone expected to “show respect”, put hands on the wheel etc?

              • Christopher
                Posted July 18, 2016 at 12:35 am | Permalink

                I have been pulled over many, many times, mostly when I was in my teens and twenties, when I had long hair, wore a lot of Phish and Grateful Dead t-shirts, and my cars were always covered with hippy-liberal and music bumper stickers. I had, however, been fully prepped by my parents on how to talk and behave when encountering a cop, which was to turn off the car, turn off the radio, roll down the window and sit with the hands on the wheel, in plain sight, with no movements unless and until told to do so. and yes, I’m “white”, but I still acted as if I were at a Baghdad roadblock. I am aware that cops always flip the strap on their pistol holster and are ready to react for any reason, and sadly, even before today, they’ve had plenty of reason to react that way. Not that I accept the use of force in many of the ways that have made the news, but if people didn’t shoot them, shoot at them, or attack them in other ways, then we could have a police force that didn’t feel the need to shoot first. So, yeah, everyone who wishes to live damn well better show some respect. Cops may not know if the person they’ve pulled over are armed, but I know that the cops ARE armed, and any time I interact with someone with a gun, I’ll be on my best behavior. I don’t like it, but I also don’t need to make it worse, nor do I like being dead.

            • rickflick
              Posted July 17, 2016 at 10:31 pm | Permalink

              If you can show evidence of Irish ancestry, I hear, you can get Irish citizenship for a couple of hundred dollars. I’m thinking of doing it myself.

              • Christopher
                Posted July 18, 2016 at 12:49 am | Permalink

                I’d love that, if true. As I would have loved to be able to prove beyond all doubt that I’ve got Cherokee ancestry (there’s no doubt about Native genes, but I look NOTHING like my grandfather, and hell, we could have been another Native nation or nations, for all I know).
                I’m not sure when my Irish ancestors came here, nor I’m I sure from where in Ireland they were from. I’ve got better info from my English/Cornish and Jewish ancestry thanks to my maternal grandmother’s research. In fact, I recently found out that, aside from the Native side, my Jewish ancestors, who came here from England, had become Quakers at some point before immigrating here some time around 1706, if I remember correctly.

                Anyway, until I can find out more, even if just for curiosity’s sake, it’s a moot point, unless the Irish govt. would take me at my extremely pale and ginger-haired word.

  10. Ken Phelps
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 4:49 pm | Permalink

    I sincerely hope this isn’t degenerating into an ISIS-like scenario from a rhetorical standpoint. Every disaffected asshole in the country might come to feel he now has some sort of ideological framework on which he can hang his mental pathologies, and many regressives will somehow frame the crimes as having historical justification.

    The whole scenario is starting to remind me of the old boating t-shirt: The beatings will continue until morale improves.

    • Eric Grobler
      Posted July 17, 2016 at 6:04 pm | Permalink

      Every disaffected asshole in the country might come to feel he now has some sort of ideological framework on which he can hang his mental pathologies

      Good point. Perhaps young men just gravitate towards any ideology that enables them to kill and die for a “nobel” cause. In Germany in the 70’s you had the Baader Meinhof group, now some young “white” germans become radical Salafists.

  11. Stuart A Milc
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:05 pm | Permalink

    “So much for the notion that good guys with guns can neutralize a bad guy with a gun.”

    How so? In the very next sentence you say:

    “We don’t of course know what happened”

    • Jonathan Wallace
      Posted July 18, 2016 at 4:40 am | Permalink

      We may not know who or why but we can all agree – surely? – that the person who shot and killed three police officers and wounded several others was a bad guy. The good guys failed to neutralise him soon enough to prevent this. The known facts seem to justify Jerry’s comment.

      • Stuart A Milc
        Posted July 18, 2016 at 7:06 am | Permalink

        What “known facts” do you and Jerry have that the main news sources don’t? How many armed good guys were there at the scene? Was anybody other than the cops at the scene? One thing that I don’t find in the reporting is any civilian eye witness reports. Someone spotted a guy with a gun and called it in. That’s where the civilian input seems to end.

        • Jonathan Wallace
          Posted July 18, 2016 at 8:58 am | Permalink

          I don’t know if there were any people at the scene other than the cops but:
          1) the guy that shot them was bad (I’m assuming we can agree on that) and he had a gun (this follows from the fact that he shot the cops);
          2) the cops were at the scene and we can presume they were armed since they always are armed in the US. We can also – I assume – agree that they were the good guys in this incident?

          Therefore it is a matter of fact that the good guys with guns failed to neutralize the bad guy with a gun at least until he had killed three of them and wounded others. You may argue over what the implications are for gun control, if any, but there is nothing in Jerry’s statement that is in conflict with the facts as known and reported through the main news outlets.

          • Stuart A Milc
            Posted July 19, 2016 at 7:58 am | Permalink

            Re-read what he said: “So much for the notion that good guys with guns can neutralize a bad guy with a gun.”

            What did they use to kill the shooter?

  12. Eric Grobler
    Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:17 pm | Permalink

    this may be an act of revenge for the police killing of Alton Sterling on July 5.

    I believe the radical left (even mainstream media) is largely responsible.
    Everything is viewed through a semi Marxist class/group identity lens. Students at University are taught that “White culture” is evil/racist, that there is institutionalized racism and sexism.
    When a black person is shot by the police even respectable media relates every incident in race terms.
    So the black youth are radicalized and believe that the “pigs” wants to exterminate them.

    Nobody is interested in the actual statistics/facts.
    Memes that “black people” are disproportionately targeted by the police is just taken for granted, even by the general public.

    The elephant in the room is:
    * The police in the US is trained to use excessive force and even the general public accepts behavior that would be unimaginable in Europe. (Like shooting a schizophrenic person that does not immediately react to screams to lie down)
    * Blacks as a demographic are more violent than the general population and thus per capita more subject to shootings.

    Thus it is not a racist police issue, the police is aggressive regardless of race and the African American population in the inner cities are more prone to violence and highly dysfunctional.

    Viewing the problem through a black victimhood lens will not solve it.

    • Posted July 17, 2016 at 5:46 pm | Permalink

      The police in the US is trained to use excessive force

      Not only that, the police tend to enforce the law in a very excessive manner. It has led to the mentality of guilty until proven innocent in the law enforcement. Put simply, most of them think they are doing their “jobs” by arresting and charging whomever they find suspicious. In the end, if the arrested person is innocent, he or she will get justice in the courts, right?

      The police can’t continue to act like soldiers with a friendlier uniform. Black lives matter, blue lives matter, all lives matter. A reform in legal system is long overdue to address these problems.

      • jay
        Posted July 17, 2016 at 6:12 pm | Permalink

        There are too many groups with a vested interest in keeping this ‘war’going. Fueling a bit of hatred is one way to gain votes.

        Hillary’s going to have a problem holding onto the BLM crowd (she has already grovelled when they said jump) while at the same time not driving away people who are horrified by this.

        Obama didn’t help by some of his actions. Sending the USAG Holder to the funeral of the criminal thug Mike Brown (Ferguson) was incredibly irresponsible. He should have stayed out and let DOJ do its job.


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