Free at last!

It’s hardly necessary to say that this woman wasn’t wearing her burqa because she “chose” to:

h/t: Lenny D.


  1. GBJames
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 1:47 pm | Permalink


  2. Ken Kukec
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 1:51 pm | Permalink

    Wasn’t this the same reaction the women of Kabul had upon the city’s 2001 liberation? IIRC, the men of Kabul similarly shaved off the beards they had been forced to wear under the Taliban.

    • jeffery
      Posted June 4, 2016 at 9:40 pm | Permalink

      I’ve read that when the Taliban first took over Kabul years ago, the trees along the streets were festooned with the tape of the thousands of cassettes they’d confiscated and destroyed- hatred of music, to me, is a particularly poisonous type of evil…

  3. Posted June 4, 2016 at 2:50 pm | Permalink

    Reblogged this on The Logical Place.

  4. Posted June 4, 2016 at 3:04 pm | Permalink

    Here’s my favorite photo from this century so far

    • infiniteimprobabilit
      Posted June 4, 2016 at 7:42 pm | Permalink

      I like that so much I’ll see if it will imbed:


      • somer
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:17 am | Permalink

        how did u do that – I’ve got screenshot of non Muslim women dressing up in hijab with messages like this is the way women should dress etc. alongside. Im on Apple

        • somer
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:30 am | Permalink

          Sorry arrogant of me to assume you need to do this – and Ive worked out how to do it!

  5. yiamcross
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 3:42 pm | Permalink

    But as we know, it isn’t real Islam that forces women to wear these things. Or blow themselves up in crowded places. Or any bad thing, apparently. Just seems odd how so many think it does….

    • infiniteimprobabilit
      Posted June 4, 2016 at 7:39 pm | Permalink

      You will notice she’s still wearing a headscarf and a black-sack dress. And she’s almost certainly a muslim and quite possibly sees her current garb as appropriate.

      So will the ‘real’ islam please step forward?


      • gravelinspector-Aidan
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 8:56 am | Permalink

        So will the ‘real’ islam please step forward?

        Haven’t you learned anything from generations of “boot camp” movies? Never volunteer for anything.

      • gravelinspector-Aidan
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 8:57 am | Permalink

        Actually PCC(E)’s inbox is laden with a report in which a minor element is diversity within various religions, including Islam.

    • ladyatheist
      Posted June 5, 2016 at 8:19 am | Permalink

      There are many “denominations” of Islam, just as there are in Christianity. The “real Islam” idea is just as false as the “real Christianity” one is. There are Christians with repressive dress codes, too.

      The Taliban & ISIS practice Wahhabism Salafism Sunni Islam.

      • gravelinspector-Aidan
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:02 am | Permalink

        There are Christians with repressive dress codes, too.

        One day I was waiting at the bus stop with a ne bike tyre or soomething, looked up from my paper, and muttered “[rude words] here come the [anatomically impossible rude words] Mormons!”
        The guy beside me looked alarmed, looked around and said “Where? Where?” So I pointed them out – abut a half kilometre and two sets of traffic lights away. They walked past us a few seconds before the bus arrived, and my correspondent could read the badges.

      • Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:53 am | Permalink

        These Christians also regard themselves as “the real” ones, with some justification.

  6. DarwinsHominid
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 4:25 pm | Permalink

    “Freedom?” I guess it’s all relative. Apparently she is still obligated to wear the hijab and long dress, however… I guess some progress is better than none.

  7. Damien McLeod
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 4:40 pm | Permalink

    Free all women from people with penis’s and sky-fairies.—free the men too.

    • Kevin
      Posted June 4, 2016 at 6:42 pm | Permalink

      Women can and should free themselves. This is not about gender, this is about individuals taking control of their lives. Full stop.

      • somer
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:29 am | Permalink

        Wish Women in solidarity with hijabis.

        Messages for non Muslims to “show support” by buying and wearing hijab for International Hijab day.
        Lots of comments about how beautiful they look,
        Some messages like Allah bless you you’ve converted to Islam now (for someone who said they now wear Hijab all the time)
        Mediha Hayri I wish people would understand some day that wearing hijab is the naturally normal while wearing bikini and kinda staff is not normal !

        Also occasional comments like
        Amelia Jahani: Modesty in the holy Qur’an concerns BOTH men’s and women’s “gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia.” The Quran admonishes Muslim women to dress modestly and cover their breasts and genitals (because of the time they were living), but it does not specify that women cover their heads, faces or bodies. People need to educate themselves instead of following others blindly…

        Furthermore one of the inserts includes several comments urging female circumcision
        as follows

        This is a western type woman dressing up in hijab = if u click comments there are
        several messages from “Sunna Revival” commenting

        “Beautiful. But there are other important things to think about as much as hijab, like safeguarding our fitrah. As you know, female circumcision is a must in Islam. It is to remove the skin (prepuce) covering the clitoris (hoodectomy) and is not genital mutilation. It is good for hygiene of the private parts and good for sex. It prevents Urinary tract Infections, AIDS and transmission of cancer-causing HPV to our husbands through oral sex.”

        • somer
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:50 am | Permalink

          PS according to WHO in cases of FGM practise around the world removal only of the prepuce (hood) is removed are actually very rare. At any rate it makes clear over and over that there are NO medical benefits from any female circumcision.
 PP 4 and 5

        • gravelinspector-Aidan
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:06 am | Permalink

          Amelia Jahani: Modesty in the holy Qur’an concerns BOTH men’s and women’s “gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia.”

          So, according to the Koran, my 20cm solid gold diamond encrusted Reverse Prince Albert would be considered immodest? Who’dathunkit?

          • Posted June 5, 2016 at 10:01 am | Permalink

            Indeed, what is “modesty” in relation to the penis? To be circumcised, or to be hidden under baggy pants, or what? You need to consult an Islamic theologian.

            • gravelinspector-Aidan
              Posted June 5, 2016 at 10:32 am | Permalink

              You’ld have noticed … or more likely, you MAY not have noticed, the way that even in “western” hotels in the Middle East, you don’t generally get communal urinals in the gents, but separate stalls. It regularly gets Muslim colleagues confused and upset when they walk into the toilets to find me “lubricating the stainless steel”, and I talk to them as if nothing in the least unusual was happening. That’s often when they realise that “We’re not in the Emirates any more, Toto!”

          • somer
            Posted June 5, 2016 at 11:23 am | Permalink

            (24:30-31 Dawood) the Qur’an enjoins women to preserve their chastity, to draw their veils over their bosoms and not to display their finery other than to male relatives, servants and children. “Servants” as in Old and New Testament I imagine.

            Ali ibn Abu Taleb, the son in law of Muhammad who became Islam’s fourth Caliph is recorded as saying: “God created sexual desire in ten parts; then he gave nine parts to women and one to men.” In most cases women are considered to bear a greater culpability for zina (adultery or fornication) than males. Not much of this comes from the Quran but of course its in hadith and traditional legal teachings which will vary but I think tend to be a very interested in (fixated with?) the chastity bit!
            … I’ve no experience in male loo protocol.

      • Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:56 am | Permalink

        I think that women can free themselves only if supported by a significant proportion of men.

        • Scott Draper
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 1:55 pm | Permalink

          Sure, unless the women are able to form an army and confiscate political power. I’m not aware of women ever gaining power this way.

          • somer
            Posted June 6, 2016 at 4:48 am | Permalink

            Women take on the expected norms of the society because they have to survive and because its drilled into them from earliest memories in many places.

            Every child is born with a true faith of Islam
            Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 2, Book 23 Number 441
            Prayers start at 4.30 every morning – broadcast from loudspeakers on every mosque. The religion is called “submission” to break down your will – 30 days a year no food OR water during daylight hours and you never know which month that will be. etc. etc. You are expected to be seen to publicly “Uphold what is good (religious) and forbid what is wrong” (Patricia Crone God’s rule)
            Girls are expected to pray and do the fast 2 years earlier than boys. There’s a huge emphasis on female conformity to Islamic norms so much of which have to do with maintaining pure male lineage, control of female sexuality, and authoritarian, tribe like social structures based on extended kin and kin friend relationships, rather than impersonal situation based law, contract and overall social services.

            Honour crimes are disproportionately directed at women knowing their place. Get too upfront, or disobey the parents too obviously and look out. In more subtle ways it means no one will marry you or your siblings. Obviously a bit different in the cities but mostly under dictatorships which cultivate religiosity anyway. Growing up in extended family system (Ali Rizvi spoken of this) where arranged marriage, women must join the family of the husband under the authority of the mother in law, and men and women defer to authority of the household heads all the timee. The only status women can get is being part of the system – having a reputation for upholding the norms of the family (which are patriarchal to maintain the authoritarian, kin based system outlined in the quran and sunna. The Quran emphasises paying respect to/providing for/inheritance to /proper relations with extended family relatives, and of course in the Hadith and traditions of the schools there is even clearer emphasis on kin relations, and tribal relations. One of the conditions of marriage is marrying either within an Arab tribe if one has Arab blood or with someone whose family has been muslim approximately as long as ones own.(Hidaya, Book 1 on Marriage)

            Thus women get status from acceding to these norms and actively upholding the religion regarding family norms. When they are older the daughter in law will serve and defer to them, and the son/s will give them some measure of respect. Otherwise they actually risk death, or a life so awful death is preferable. Besides they are brainwashed that this is morality and righteousness and they will burn in hell forever if they don’t believe it.

            In the most sahih hadith the Prophet is supposed to have said “I looked into Hell and I saw that the majority of its people are women.”
            (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 3241; Muslim, 2737)

            The scriptures are riddled with misogyny
            For example Sahih Bukhari states –
            the prophet said, ‘Is not the testimony of two women equal to the testimony of one man?’ They said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Is it not true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her religious commitment.’” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 304). In the Hidaya, for injury not resulting in death there is no retaliation between man and woman, free born and slave or between slaves, but the fine for wounding or maiming a woman is to be half that for a man. This is because “the rank of a woman is lower than that of a man, and so likewise her faculties and uses.”
            The Quran 4:34 states that disobedient wives may be “scourged” by their husbands, and that God made men superior to women. Quran 37:149-151 (also 53:11-27) Ask the unbelievers if it be true that God has daughters, while they themselves choose sons. ….Would God choose daughters rather than sons? What has come over you that you should judge so ill?

            • Scott Draper
              Posted June 6, 2016 at 11:20 am | Permalink

              Far too long of a comment and apparently unrelated to my own comment.

              • somer
                Posted June 7, 2016 at 9:12 am | Permalink

                I should have noted that another reason (in addition to your comment) that its pretty typical in traditional cultures that many women within the culture seem to embrace the most woman unfriendly elements are the reasons I mentioned. Personally I think the religion is pretty authoritarian full stop and many western/non muslim women who adopt the faith either are attracted to authoritarianism, are naive about the nature of it, or have managed to join a relatively tolerant community within the faith

  8. Dave
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 5:13 pm | Permalink

    Here’s what I see in Chrome: “It’s hardly necessary to say that this woman wasn’t wearing her burqa because she “chose” to:

    h/t: Lenny D.”

    It is a frequent occurrence that I can’t see what’s inserted and have to resort to IE (shudder).

    • gscott
      Posted June 4, 2016 at 5:51 pm | Permalink

      Maybe your settings? Chrome works fine for me.

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:11 am | Permalink

      Probably your settings ban cross-site links. The image loaded above the fold is from “http : / / stuff”
      I run “noScript”, and choose to permit links to Twitter on this domain, but not generally for

      • Dave
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 1:37 pm | Permalink

        If it’s a setting I don’t see what it could be. I may have forgot to mention that I cleverly signed up to run the beta versions of Chrome.

        • gravelinspector-Aidan
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 3:06 pm | Permalink

          I don’t know Chrome, I’m afraid. But the symptoms are similar to the effect of adding NoScript to my FF configuration.

          • Dave
            Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:07 pm | Permalink

            Thanks for the advice. Looks like AdBlock was the culprit.

            • gravelinspector-Aidan
              Posted June 6, 2016 at 10:12 am | Permalink

              Yes, Adblock does things like that too. Because that very tactic of linking from one page to content on another domain is a very typical trick of advertising.

  9. Scott Draper
    Posted June 4, 2016 at 8:22 pm | Permalink

    She chose to wear the burqa right up until the village was liberated, then she chose not to. Total coincidence.

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:14 am | Permalink

      It’ll also be total coincidence that she’ll be first into the waist-deep stoning pit if the village gets de-liberated.
      I’m sure this won’t be lost upon her too and she’ll be fisrt on the “get out of Manjib” bus if that time looks likely. (Is Manjib the name of the village?).

      • Scott Draper
        Posted June 5, 2016 at 11:17 am | Permalink

        Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, but I didn’t want to be the wet blanket. 😉

        • gravelinspector-Aidan
          Posted June 5, 2016 at 11:42 am | Permalink

          Look at it this way – our comments are things that she (or her lawyer) could cite in support of her asylum claim. “A well-founded fear of persecution” is a solid basis for a claim.

  10. George
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 6:52 am | Permalink

    Pure propaganda! Women want to wear burgas and have their genitals mutilated.

  11. ladyatheist
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 8:22 am | Permalink

    We have Kim Davis & Michelle Duggar who seem to have chosen not to have choices, so it’s not impossible to conceive of a devout woman choosing obedience in Islam. I disagree with both, but I think they are as much the victim of brainwashing as of repression.

  12. somer
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:08 am | Permalink

    This goes with that at Suzanne (clothes shop).

  13. sensorrhea
    Posted June 5, 2016 at 9:34 am | Permalink

    The post is empty other than the text for me as well. Can someone provide a link to the meat and potato portion?

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