Right-wing politician gives an expensive dino skeleton (proving Noah’s Flood) to the Creation Museum

Talk to Action, a site that reports on the religious right, has a doozy with a few twists.  The title is a bit confusing: “RINO says his dino proves Noah’s Flood. Wha wha WHAT? UPDATED!

Well, the RINO (Republican In Name Only) is Michael Peroutka, an extreme right-winger who is so far to the right that he disguises his real political affiliation (the confederacy of dunces called The Constitution Party) by trying to run as a Republican for a minor political office in Maryland.  In reality, he’s a pro-Confederate secessionist who proudly sports the Confederate flag on his garb:

Clarkson and I have previously reported that Peroutka and Whitney [David Whitney, Perutka's preacher and political ally] are leaders of the League of the South, a Neo-Confederate group which the Southern Poverty Law Center describes as a hate group. Whitney serves as the chaplain of the Maryland chapter of the League. As the lead instructor of Peroutka’s Institute on the Constitution, he teaches “the God-given right to secede.”

Peroutka has spoken at League of the South conventions for years, was elected to its board of directors in 2013, and on at least one such occasion sported a polo with a Confederate battle flag.

 photo MichaelPeroutkawearingDixieflagshirt-cropped.jpg

Below is a video of Peroutka from three years ago, arguing that “evolutionary thinking is dangerous—and anti-Amerian,” as well as “What I’m saying is that the promotion of evolution is an act of disloyalty to America… What I’m saying is there’s no way you can promote or believe in evolution and sing `God Bless America’ during the 7th inning stretch!” Note that he declares with confidence that the creator God is not Allah or any of the Hindu deities. Sounds like Eric Hedin, no? No Hindu monkey god could do that!

Now it’s Peroutka’s creationism that has led to this latest shenanigan, and the part that interests me (I can’t do squat about his political luncacy):

Peroutka’s family foundation — the Elizabeth Streb Peroutka Foundation (named in honor of his mother) — purchased an allosaurus skeleton for $200,000 in 2004 and spent a decade carefully restoring it. Creation Museum proprietor Ken Ham seems to think that the acquisition of the dinosaur fossil lends his endeavor credibility.

“For decades I’ve walked through many leading secular museums, like the Smithsonian in Washington, and have seen their impressive dinosaur skeletons, but they were used for evolution,” Ham told the Associated Press. “Now we have one of that class for our museum.”

. . . A museum geologist claims that the well-preserved state of the 30-foot-long, bipedal predator shows that it apparently died in a sudden immersion. He hastily concludes that if the dinosaur died quickly by immersion, then this must corroborate the Biblical story of Noah’s flood. He admits no other possibilities for a dinosaur’s sudden drowning.

In case you’ve forgotten what an Allosaurus is, it’s a large carnivorous theropod dinosaur, which looks similar to T. rex. Here’s an Allosaurus fragilis skeleton. The one Peroutka gave to the creation Museum, which supposedly proves the Flood, is apparently worth about $200,000:

A. fragilis (from Wikipedia)

A. fragilis (from Wikipedia)

Now most animal fossils are formed after immersion of a carcass in water and its burial in sediments, so I’m curious how the Creation Museum’s “geologist” could show that this one died by sudden immersion (read: Noah’s flood). How can you distinguish that from the thing dying in water that wasn’t the Flood, and then being fossilized. Real geologists in Kentucky, of course, haven’t fallen for it:

“The Creation Museum has asserted the specimen to be evidence of Noah’s flood without any actual research,” said Dan Phelps, president of the Kentucky Paleontological Society, in an email to the AP.

“Real vertebrate paleontologists study the surrounding sediments and the geological context of their finds,” he added. “Of course since the Creation Museum doesn’t do scientific research, all (it) really has done is obtain a nice display trophy.”

So here’s a challenge to Ken Ham, the Creation Museum, and the “geologist” who proved that this skeleton was from an animal who died in Noah’s Flood. Since you claim scientific evidence for the Flood, including items like this skeleton, please make available for scrutiny the results of your geologist’s inspection of the Allosaurus skeleton, including the data showing that there is no possibility for the creature’s death save “sudden immersion while alive.” In fact, perhaps I’ll write Dr. Phelps and urge him to make this inquiry.

Any real scientist who studies something like this is honor-bound to make his data available to other scientists. I’m absolutely positive, of course, that this creationists “geologist” won’t do it, but I’d like to see his/her excuse. Without any evidence and documentation, the claim that this thing died in Noah’s Flood is worthless. Moreover, there should be some dates associated with the fossil, showing that it’s less than 10,000 years old, and certainly not 150 million years old thought by non-loony geologists to be the time when this creature lived.

Mr. Ham, show us those data!

h/t: Terry

69 Comments

  1. GBJames
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 5:57 am | Permalink

    “and sing `God Bless America’ during the 7th inning stretch!”

    Blasphemy! You sing “Take Me Out To The Ball Game” during 7th inning stretch!

    An all-around idiot.

    • Timothy Hughbanks
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:02 am | Permalink

      …and then there’s the idiocy that a secessionist is talking about God Bless America at all.

      • Diana MacPherson
        Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:11 am | Permalink

        As I was reading this, I wondered if you could really call this guy right wing at all or is it just one of those words he doesn’t understand but uses it to describe himself – kind of like how the words “communist”, “socialist” or “fascist” are used by the ignorant. If he is a secessionist then right wing would really be the opposite – way right wing to me being a fascist that would see all individual endeavours as secondary to the good of the state. I don’t even know how to classify this guy.

        • merilee
          Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:17 am | Permalink

          Maybe Rob Ford could nail it: he called someone a right-wing communist recently.

          • Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:25 am | Permalink

            That kind of ignorance can be very funny. In an argument not too long ago I heard someone say, “Go back to France, Commie!” He seemed to honestly believe that France is a communist country. And of course the person he said it to was not French anyway.

            • Diana MacPherson
              Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:18 am | Permalink

              Yeah France is synonymous, in America, with “bad stuff”. I blame the recent BS on Bush referring to Germany, Belgium and France as “the axis of weasels” for not supporting the war vs. Iraq. Somehow Germany and Belgium got off without lasting disdain towards them but as usual, France got ridiculed.

              I’ve defended French Canadians to my American relatives, explaining that the are Canadians, dumb asses!

              • TJR
                Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:58 am | Permalink

                Yes, those damn Frenchies, they just don’t believe in Liberty, and would certainly never build a statue to it like those good old American boys did.

              • Diana MacPherson
                Posted May 27, 2014 at 10:05 am | Permalink

                LOL! Good one! I bet they wouldn’t even have a revolution like Americans did!

          • Diana MacPherson
            Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:14 am | Permalink

            Proving how well educated he is again. Maybe a right wing communist is a liberal.

            • merilee
              Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:55 am | Permalink

              could be…

          • Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:18 am | Permalink

            Surely that should be “right-wing communisht”?

            • merilee
              Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:54 am | Permalink

              most likely;-))

          • Richard Bond
            Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:15 am | Permalink

            That reminds me of a leftish newspaper in the UK (Grauniad, perhaps?) that referred to the small rump of hard-core communists in the first post-Perestroika parliament as “right-wing”.

        • Timothy Hughbanks
          Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:21 am | Permalink

          He’s just a small step beyond Rick Perry, who thinks that Texas has a right to secede.

        • John Scanlon, FCD
          Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:34 am | Permalink

          A secessionist is just a white dude who wants to own black slaves, and thinks it’s his gawd-gibbon right.
          Or is that what a Libertarian is? I get so confused about these labels sometimes.

    • Diana MacPherson
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:08 am | Permalink

      What a heretic!

    • Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:22 am | Permalink

      For Yankee games in the Bronx at least, they switched to God Bless America after 9/11. I hate it.

    • eric
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:50 am | Permalink

      Just went to a game yesterday; they did both. Though I’m sure it varies by ballpark.

  2. Posted May 27, 2014 at 5:59 am | Permalink

    “What I’m saying is that the promotion of evolution is an act of disloyalty to America… What I’m saying is there’s no way you can promote or believe in evolution and sing `God Bless America’ during the 7th inning stretch!”

    That’s a new one on me — following the logical train is enough to make the brain cramp. Loonytoons stuff indeed.

  3. Timothy Hughbanks
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:00 am | Permalink

    Do you know whether the skeleton was bought after a serious paleontologist dug it up, or was the site trashed by one of these loons?

    • Mark Sturtevant
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:23 am | Permalink

      Only tidbit I have found was that it was dug out of Colorado years ago, and Peroutka had bought it. Best guess is that it was found by private field collectors that run their business on finding dino fossils on private land. The most famous example is Sue, the T. rex now in the Chicago Field Museum (although Sue apparently was collected illegally).
      I think the field collectors sometimes do get scientific data, since that effects the $ value for museum buyers. I have no idea about the present case.

  4. Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:07 am | Permalink

    Why is a secessionist worried about evolution being anti-American? I guess he must mean the REAL America – the one that never existed and never will. Now the whole thing makes sense, fossil, flood and all.

    • Diana MacPherson
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:13 am | Permalink

      It is really warped. You see members of the GOP idolizing those that reject government. So, an authoritarian party (as all political parties tend to be) likes something that his totally against what they stand for. There needs to be a study.

      • Jeffery
        Posted May 27, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Permalink

        That’s right- it’s so clear now: a country that never existed based on a series of occurrences that never happened! What a fit!

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted May 28, 2014 at 7:26 am | Permalink

      I guess he must mean the REAL America – the one that never existed and never will.

      Supported by a god that never existed and never will have existed.

      Now the whole thing makes sense, fossil, flood and all.

      Perfect sense. Look thate’s one of the nice attendants with a nice jacket for you with built in gloves that do up at the back. Your hands look cold. Why don’t you put the jacket on?

  5. francis
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:09 am | Permalink

    ….Peroutka is full of shit….

    • francis
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:12 am | Permalink

      //

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted May 28, 2014 at 7:27 am | Permalink

      Coprolites please! There are geologists watching!

  6. Alex Shuffell
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:24 am | Permalink

    This is the perfect example of Cargo Cult science. They have a fossil just like a real museum!

    If you look at the Exhibit photos from the Creation museum website it is just in a little glass tank in the corner of a room. They have no idea what to do with it. It is a real shame someone like Ebenezer (that’s it’s name) is just on display.

  7. tubby
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:30 am | Permalink

    I wonder if this guy is showing up in Baltimore for the Orioles games or PG County for the Nationals dressed in his Confederate Polo shirt. I’m sure that would go over well. I wonder how often he crosses into DC wearing that.

    • colnago80
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 2:03 pm | Permalink

      Just to set the record straight, the National’s ball park is in DC. It’s the Deadskins who play in a stadium in PG county.

      • tubby
        Posted May 27, 2014 at 2:12 pm | Permalink

        Oops, I thought the Nats played in PG too.

      • gravelinspector-Aidan
        Posted May 28, 2014 at 7:31 am | Permalink

        It’s the Deadskins who play in a stadium in PG county.

        A baseket ball or iron grid team that comes from an area traditionally associated with leather making? Like … there’s one team of people who make cheese in their spare time, isn’t there? And some hosiery makers?

  8. Posted May 27, 2014 at 6:48 am | Permalink

    Why does this guy go on and on about how the U.S. Constitution agrees with the existence of the Christian god, with young Earth creationism or with any of his religious nonsense? All people have to do is read the Constitution to know he’s lying.

    Oh, wait… right-wingers and facts… I forgot.

  9. Pliny the in Between
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 7:58 am | Permalink

    Considering the number of fossilized dinosaurs found in sediments, Noah’s flood must have lasted much longer than 40 days and 40 nights – more like 54+79 million years if we ignore the Triassic.

    • John Scanlon, FCD
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 9:04 am | Permalink

      Who’s a heretic now? The Triassic, however anomalous, cannot be simply swept under the rug, but should be embraced. Or vice versa.

  10. Evan Plommer
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:08 am | Permalink

    What is it with speakers like Peroutka,who have to preface most of what they say with “What I’m saying is…”? We know they’re saying it. Just get on with it!

  11. Torbjörn Larsson, OM
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:20 am | Permalink

    They really should be forced to date it, to make sure it is real and not a fake. And then display the age with the credentials…

    • moarscienceplz
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 3:48 pm | Permalink

      But to a creationist, the only dating procedure is carbon 14 dating, which they insist is unreliable in any case.

      • John Scanlon, FCD
        Posted May 28, 2014 at 3:09 am | Permalink

        If it’s less than 10,000 years old, C14 is perfect. It’s extremely reliable these days, if you extract and purify the collagen first, to avoid contamination from younger or older stuff (bacteria, fungi, soil carbonates, atmospheric carbon from rainwater). Less than two half-lives ago, so there should be plenty of C14 left in the dinosaur’s tissues.
        Except there ain’t, ‘cos it ain’t.

  12. Taz
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:24 am | Permalink

    It’s a shame that such a wonderful specimen had to full into the hands of religious fanatics.

    • gravelinspector-Aidan
      Posted May 28, 2014 at 7:34 am | Permalink

      There’s a good chance that the fossil will survive the experience.
      Unless the museum’s electrician trusts in god, and not his voltmeter. Which is a prospect that really worries me. (Their medical lunacies may kill themselves, but not their neighbours and working firemen.)

  13. Posted May 27, 2014 at 8:33 am | Permalink

    I am of the hope that when this “museum” closes (if Nye stops lending aid and support to the enemy, albeit unwittingly), then the skeleton will land in a legitimate museum at fire sale prices.

    • Carlos del Solar
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 11:45 am | Permalink

      I’m pretty sure some day, and that could be in 100 years, this skeleton will have on its description as a curious fact that once it was part of a loony museum. I’m confident on this. What I’m uncertain is if that real museum would be in the USA or not.

  14. Posted May 27, 2014 at 9:29 am | Permalink

    Such a waste … I do look forward (in a cynical sort of way …) to the result of Jerry’s challenge.

    I suspect you may just get some made up stuff …

  15. Sean
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 9:58 am | Permalink

    Cognitive Dissonance on display is amazing!

    “Look at this 150 million year old dinosaur, it proves the world is 6000 years old”

    “I am a confederate / secessionist and a member of the CONSTITUTION party”

    Life must be exhausting having to justify these opposing positions

    • Posted May 27, 2014 at 10:30 am | Permalink

      I suspect a sufficient degree of ignorance prevents cognitive dissonance.

  16. Johnxyz
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 11:06 am | Permalink

    When he’s shared the evidence that it did die by sudden immersion in water, could you ask him for the evidence that this water came as part of a global event?

    • Posted May 27, 2014 at 11:09 am | Permalink

      And why no one except the OT myth writers noticed said epic flood.

      • John Scanlon, FCD
        Posted May 28, 2014 at 6:54 am | Permalink

        That’s not a good angle to argue, because there really are similar flood myths all over the world. Which is not a mystery, because global sea level rose A LOT at the end of the Pleistocene, and more local tectonic events produce regional changes that any insightful person could extrapolate into a hypothetical global flood.

  17. Kev
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 11:11 am | Permalink

    Doubt that they are interested to scientifically prove anything. The fossil will go in their museum and they will say anything they like about it. Creationists won’t care about proof or opposing arguments. They are seeking to retain the converted not convert evolutionists

    • MP
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 1:17 pm | Permalink

      I think the acquisition of dinosaur fossils by these people is specifically aimed at the indoctrination of children.

      • moarscienceplz
        Posted May 27, 2014 at 3:49 pm | Permalink

        You got that right!

  18. Thylacinidae
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 11:17 am | Permalink

    So, how does this work? In order to prove that the dinosaur died by ‘sudden immersion’ they would have to use ‘historical science’ which they have railed against at every opportunity as being inaccurate…
    The Creation Museum is just so fucking numb.

    • moarscienceplz
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 3:53 pm | Permalink

      Ham himself insists that dinos survived the flood by being on the ark. So even by his own warped view of history, the “fact” that a dino drowned proves nothing about whether the death occurred pre-, post-, or intra-flood.

    • Posted May 28, 2014 at 10:16 am | Permalink

      I think Ham’s point is that somehow you have to use different methodology for the two kinds of science. Silly, but there you are. Subsequently, they would claim we are “blinded by our presuppositions” etc.

  19. Jeffery
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 12:05 pm | Permalink

    “Ha, ha- we’re right, and you’re wrong, Evolutionists”
    – “No, you’re not”
    – “Black is white, and white is black; makes perfect sense”
    – “No, it doesn’t”
    – “We’ve got our fingers in our ears; we can’t hear you; la-la-la-la….”

  20. Carlos del Solar
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 12:08 pm | Permalink

    I found a stake buried in my backyard. That surely proves the existence of vampires and all the stories written about them.
    No, there was no vampire body or anything else. But, man I like to believe in vampires! I need to believe in vampires!

    • Posted May 28, 2014 at 1:35 pm | Permalink

      OT: How do you kill a vegetarian vampire?

      /@

      • GBJames
        Posted May 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm | Permalink

        Steak to the heart. With a lot of garlic sauce.

        • Posted May 28, 2014 at 1:43 pm | Permalink

          Damn! You were posting while I was typing . . .

          • GBJames
            Posted May 28, 2014 at 1:44 pm | Permalink

            One of had to hit “submit” first! ;)

      • Posted May 28, 2014 at 1:41 pm | Permalink

        How do you kill a vegetarian vampire?

        Drive a steak through its heart.

        Ba-boom. I’ll be here all this week, folx.

  21. Posted May 27, 2014 at 3:54 pm | Permalink

    Mr. Ham, you weren’t there. So how could you possibly know the cause of death?

    Personally, I think it was Satan running around trying to trick people into thinking God flooded the Earth to show that Yahweh is a genocidal monster and we should all be on Team Lucifer.

    • Diana MacPherson
      Posted May 27, 2014 at 4:37 pm | Permalink

      Well we have been told that he is getting trickier.

  22. moarscienceplz
    Posted May 27, 2014 at 3:56 pm | Permalink

    (With apologies to Variety :)

    RINO’s Dino Now Ham Scam

  23. Posted May 27, 2014 at 4:24 pm | Permalink

    I’ve been introduced to people who look like Peroutka in the polo shirt photo, all friendly appearing with twinkling eyes and big outgoing Rotarian smile, and been trapped in a handclasp as they launch their racist/misogynist/right-wing-whatever spiel from out of left field.

    You know you’ll find yourself deep in the ol’ mud-pit with a pig if you evince the slightest hint of disapproval. Suddenly it’s decision time whether to reveal antipathy and enter into a confrontational showdown with an insufferable swine, or conceal revulsion and silently disengage and disappear.

    The latter is safer, and there is always a better time and place for the former. Especially if you’ve innocently entered a den full of this sort of a-hole sans any allies of your own. One often does want to bloody the nose right there on the spot, though, so to speak.

  24. ivarhusa
    Posted May 28, 2014 at 3:08 pm | Permalink

    We are gradually recovering bones from a Columbian Mammoth at Coyote Canyon, near Kennewick, WA. Geologists believe this probably intact (articulated) skeleton was of an animal drowned in a Pleistocene (Ice Age) Flood, as it is buried in flood deposits. More at: http://mcbones.org/


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