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	<title>Comments on: Philosopher Thomas Nagel goes the way of Alvin Plantinga, disses evolution</title>
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	<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/</link>
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		<title>By: temecula contractor</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-438260</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[temecula contractor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 May 2013 22:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-438260</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Undeniably believe that that you stated. Your favorite reason seemed to be on the net the easiest factor to take into accout of.

I say to you, I certainly get annoyed whilst people think about worries that they plainly don&#039;t recognise about. You managed to hit the nail upon the highest and defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , folks could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thank you]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Undeniably believe that that you stated. Your favorite reason seemed to be on the net the easiest factor to take into accout of.</p>
<p>I say to you, I certainly get annoyed whilst people think about worries that they plainly don&#8217;t recognise about. You managed to hit the nail upon the highest and defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , folks could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thank you</p>
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		<title>By: Mind and Cosmos &#124; Gornahoor</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-306983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mind and Cosmos &#124; Gornahoor]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Oct 2012 11:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-306983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Mind and Cosmos, there is a flurry of activity to restore the status quo ante. On the one hand, the consensus illusion needs to be re-fortified. On the other, religious philosophers such as Edward Feser or the Maverick [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mind and Cosmos, there is a flurry of activity to restore the status quo ante. On the one hand, the consensus illusion needs to be re-fortified. On the other, religious philosophers such as Edward Feser or the Maverick [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-304207</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Peter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2012 15:25:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-304207</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Philosophy student from a top university. Why does anybody take this guy seriously in the first place?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Philosophy student from a top university. Why does anybody take this guy seriously in the first place?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Goren</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-302116</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Goren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2012 15:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-302116</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Then it can be observed; and, being observable, it is quantifiable.

And, yet, it is never observed, and all quantifications add up without room for it in the mix.

In short, it is the invisible dragon in your garage whose breath gives off no heat. You&#039;re welcome to sit down and have a nice chat with it over a beer and a toke, but you shouldn&#039;t be surprised when nobody takes you seriously.

b&amp;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Then it can be observed; and, being observable, it is quantifiable.</p>
<p>And, yet, it is never observed, and all quantifications add up without room for it in the mix.</p>
<p>In short, it is the invisible dragon in your garage whose breath gives off no heat. You&#8217;re welcome to sit down and have a nice chat with it over a beer and a toke, but you shouldn&#8217;t be surprised when nobody takes you seriously.</p>
<p>b&amp;</p>
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		<title>By: Bebop</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-301437</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bebop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 17:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-301437</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course it interacts with the universe. It is the process itself. It can&#039;t alter the course of history since it is the history itself. And it communicates with humans because humans communicate between them.
Again, it is hard to see it just like it would be hard for water to wet water. 
We are &quot;made&quot; of that no-thing. Consciousness is made of that no-thing. 
But our finite perspective on things prevents us to accede to what is beyond our physical/dual mode of grasping. We can escape it, but you have some work to do.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course it interacts with the universe. It is the process itself. It can&#8217;t alter the course of history since it is the history itself. And it communicates with humans because humans communicate between them.<br />
Again, it is hard to see it just like it would be hard for water to wet water.<br />
We are &#8220;made&#8221; of that no-thing. Consciousness is made of that no-thing.<br />
But our finite perspective on things prevents us to accede to what is beyond our physical/dual mode of grasping. We can escape it, but you have some work to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Goren</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-300718</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Goren]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-300718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does your &quot;uncreated phenomenon&quot; ever interact with the observable universe? Does it ever communicate with humans? Does it ever alter the course of history? Does it ever make its presence known?

b&amp;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does your &#8220;uncreated phenomenon&#8221; ever interact with the observable universe? Does it ever communicate with humans? Does it ever alter the course of history? Does it ever make its presence known?</p>
<p>b&amp;</p>
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		<title>By: abb3w</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-300701</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[abb3w]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-300701</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Logical and mathematical is an argument against certain overly strong forms of naturalism, which I&#039;d call a strawman... position except that I&#039;ve run into people espousing it on occasion. Logic and mathematics are abstractions, developed as precursors to obtain a language for talking about &quot;is&quot; questions. In so far as mathematics includes concepts lacking empirical instantiation (such as the Banach-Tarski sphere dissection), mathematics can be &quot;unnatural&quot;. However, a more moderate &quot;naturalism&quot; may simply admit a philosophical dependence on the validity of the underlying axioms of mathematics, and concepts derivable, and then watch for where the Theologian tries to pull a fast one.

Given mathematics, the next philosophical step for the science-inclined is the problem of induction. This can be resolved by taking as an axiom that experience has some pattern, yielding a theorem formalizing Occam&#039;s Razor and with an algorithm implied which resembles science, providing a quasi-effective resolution of the problem of induction. (Refutation gives an alternative axiom, but seems to lead to a philosophical dead end at Ramsey Theory and Boltzman Brains.) Formally, &quot;pattern&quot; translates to &quot;pattern recognizable by an ordinal degree of hypercomputation&quot;; the Turing principle thus results from either an explicit assumption of an ordinal of zero, or a provisional inference that hypercomputation doesn&#039;t yet make any empirical explanations (formally) simpler. Or in short: it&#039;s easier to just take an arbitrary axiom than invoke the &quot;Omega Point&quot;.

&quot;Moral truth&quot; is something of the flip side from logic and mathematics. Rather than being an implicit prior needed for answering of is-questions, moral &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;orderings&lt;/a&gt; (EG: better or worse) for choices implicitly requires first answering is questions -- particularly, &quot;What are the choices?&quot; While the existence of such orderings can be shown constructively, and humans have some tendencies in choice orderings, the question of which of the possible choice orderings the word &quot;ought&quot; references and the question of whether these human tendencies are &quot;true&quot; are non-empirical. Both require an additional axiom, to indicate which ought-ordering is meant; essentially, Hume&#039;s is-ought problem.

So... logical, mathematical, and moral truth are arguments only effective against naturalism&#039;s most naive forms and against moderately doltish adherents. (The most doltish tend not to understand the argument, and the least doltish tend to spot flaws.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Logical and mathematical is an argument against certain overly strong forms of naturalism, which I&#8217;d call a strawman&#8230; position except that I&#8217;ve run into people espousing it on occasion. Logic and mathematics are abstractions, developed as precursors to obtain a language for talking about &#8220;is&#8221; questions. In so far as mathematics includes concepts lacking empirical instantiation (such as the Banach-Tarski sphere dissection), mathematics can be &#8220;unnatural&#8221;. However, a more moderate &#8220;naturalism&#8221; may simply admit a philosophical dependence on the validity of the underlying axioms of mathematics, and concepts derivable, and then watch for where the Theologian tries to pull a fast one.</p>
<p>Given mathematics, the next philosophical step for the science-inclined is the problem of induction. This can be resolved by taking as an axiom that experience has some pattern, yielding a theorem formalizing Occam&#8217;s Razor and with an algorithm implied which resembles science, providing a quasi-effective resolution of the problem of induction. (Refutation gives an alternative axiom, but seems to lead to a philosophical dead end at Ramsey Theory and Boltzman Brains.) Formally, &#8220;pattern&#8221; translates to &#8220;pattern recognizable by an ordinal degree of hypercomputation&#8221;; the Turing principle thus results from either an explicit assumption of an ordinal of zero, or a provisional inference that hypercomputation doesn&#8217;t yet make any empirical explanations (formally) simpler. Or in short: it&#8217;s easier to just take an arbitrary axiom than invoke the &#8220;Omega Point&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Moral truth&#8221; is something of the flip side from logic and mathematics. Rather than being an implicit prior needed for answering of is-questions, moral <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partially_ordered_set" rel="nofollow">orderings</a> (EG: better or worse) for choices implicitly requires first answering is questions &#8212; particularly, &#8220;What are the choices?&#8221; While the existence of such orderings can be shown constructively, and humans have some tendencies in choice orderings, the question of which of the possible choice orderings the word &#8220;ought&#8221; references and the question of whether these human tendencies are &#8220;true&#8221; are non-empirical. Both require an additional axiom, to indicate which ought-ordering is meant; essentially, Hume&#8217;s is-ought problem.</p>
<p>So&#8230; logical, mathematical, and moral truth are arguments only effective against naturalism&#8217;s most naive forms and against moderately doltish adherents. (The most doltish tend not to understand the argument, and the least doltish tend to spot flaws.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bebop</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-300693</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bebop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-300693</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m exactly saying that an uncreated phenomenon can&#039;t be tested scientifically because it can only be a no-thing that our limited intellect, our default mode of grasping can&#039;t see, unless you learn how to go beyond it.

So to think that the &quot;God phenomenon&quot; has to be a closed system who obeys to the laws of conservation is a very good way to not find it...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m exactly saying that an uncreated phenomenon can&#8217;t be tested scientifically because it can only be a no-thing that our limited intellect, our default mode of grasping can&#8217;t see, unless you learn how to go beyond it.</p>
<p>So to think that the &#8220;God phenomenon&#8221; has to be a closed system who obeys to the laws of conservation is a very good way to not find it&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Bebop</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-300585</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Bebop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:15:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-300585</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The agreement was about the change of the subject, not about the rest..]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The agreement was about the change of the subject, not about the rest..</p>
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		<title>By: abb3w</title>
		<link>http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2012/10/13/philosopher-thomas-nagel-goes-the-way-of-alvin-plantinga-disses-evolution/#comment-300556</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[abb3w]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2012 16:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/?p=73613#comment-300556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, one piece to support that the key was &lt;i&gt;non-supernatural&lt;/i&gt; uniformity rather than mere uniformity (possibly supernatural) is the difference in trajectories of Enlightenment Europe and Islamic Africa. After the rejection of Ibn Rushd by the latter, their scientific and technological progress stagnated. Uniformity thus seems likely also a necessary but insufficient condition.

(Anticipating one possible objection: the Enlightenment was a Christian movement in much the same way as the Protestant Reformation was a Catholic movement.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, one piece to support that the key was <i>non-supernatural</i> uniformity rather than mere uniformity (possibly supernatural) is the difference in trajectories of Enlightenment Europe and Islamic Africa. After the rejection of Ibn Rushd by the latter, their scientific and technological progress stagnated. Uniformity thus seems likely also a necessary but insufficient condition.</p>
<p>(Anticipating one possible objection: the Enlightenment was a Christian movement in much the same way as the Protestant Reformation was a Catholic movement.)</p>
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